Not "getting" Memriloc

Cauldronics

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Cutting the extension at the edge of the tape should allow clearance from the shell. That's cutting off 1". Gary had difficulty stabilizing the mount while grinding. I know decent pipe cutters are expensive. A new hacksaw blade might do it, but you have to secure the mount while cutting. I guess if you have a Memriloc freestanding stand, you might hook it up for stability. I think I would get out my Dremel tool and my safety glasses. i have one of those little Dremel vices with rubber protectors. Ace
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I think the tom arm mount is steel, and there were no pipe cutters made for cutting steel when I looked at Home depot. Two people on the floor help staff said you can't use a pipe cutter for steel and that a hacksaw is the best way to go, unless you have a grinder.
 

SteveB

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Cutting the extension at the edge of the tape should allow clearance from the shell. That's cutting off 1". Gary had difficulty stabilizing the mount while grinding. I know decent pipe cutters are expensive. A new hacksaw blade might do it, but you have to secure the mount while cutting. I guess if you have a Memriloc freestanding stand, you might hook it up for stability. I think I would get out my Dremel tool and my safety glasses. i have one of those little Dremel vices with rubber protectors. Ace
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Ace,

I was going to suggest a vise, the use of tape to help with guiding the cut by using a hack saw and a bastard file for knocking off the burrs.

Shy of this you might put a piece of 2x4 in the driveway, place the mount on the 2x4 and very carefully driving your car on top of the mount to help stabilize it. Be careful not to cut the tires or kick the chocks out. :blackeye:

Good pictorial! It looks very clean.
 

FloydZKing

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The tom arms are cast on ends, but the tubes aren't anything special. The cheapo tube cutter from Lowe's easily cuts it. The receiver casting excision is also cake with the simple pipe cutter. That protuberance is made from the metallic equivalent of angel food cake. I still have some offcuts in my pipe drawer and they are bubbly inside. Highly recommend it over vise and hacksaw.
 

tommykat1

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Cutting the extension at the edge of the tape should allow clearance from the shell. That's cutting off 1". Gary had difficulty stabilizing the mount while grinding. I know decent pipe cutters are expensive. A new hacksaw blade might do it, but you have to secure the mount while cutting. I guess if you have a Memriloc freestanding stand, you might hook it up for stability. I think I would get out my Dremel tool and my safety glasses. i have one of those little Dremel vices with rubber protectors. Ace
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Since you have to cut the tube anyway, why not just cut it all off? Seems cleaner all the way around IMHO. Is there a need for the tube to protrude through a hole in an altered side plate? If so, why?

Okay, so maybe I'm throwing a wrench in the works (after 14 pages!!!!), but is there a need to order a special side plate at all? Why not just buy what RIMS offers and drill a couple of holes. Am I missing something?

Structurally, the side plate would be stronger with the fewest holes, right?

Sorry, Ace, if I appear clueless...
 

tommykat1

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The tom arms are cast on ends, but the tubes aren't anything special. The cheapo tube cutter from Lowe's easily cuts it. The receiver casting excision is also cake with the simple pipe cutter. That protuberance is made from the metallic equivalent of angel food cake. I still have some offcuts in my pipe drawer and they are bubbly inside. Highly recommend it over vise and hacksaw.
Seems to me a hacksaw and a grinder--or even a simple flat file--would be a five minute job. No?
 

DanC

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Cutting the extension at the edge of the tape should allow clearance from the shell. That's cutting off 1". Gary had difficulty stabilizing the mount while grinding. I know decent pipe cutters are expensive. A new hacksaw blade might do it, but you have to secure the mount while cutting. I guess if you have a Memriloc freestanding stand, you might hook it up for stability. I think I would get out my Dremel tool and my safety glasses. i have one of those little Dremel vices with rubber protectors. Ace
View attachment 145389
View attachment 145390
Since you have to cut the tube anyway, why not just cut it all off? Seems cleaner all the way around IMHO. Is there a need for the tube to protrude through a hole in an altered side plate? If so, why?

Okay, so maybe I'm throwing a wrench in the works (after 14 pages!!!!), but is there a need to order a special side plate at all? Why not just buy what RIMS offers and drill a couple of holes. Am I missing something?

Structurally, the side plate would be stronger with the fewest holes, right?

Sorry, Ace, if I appear clueless...

Tommy, you are not clueless, this is exactly right.
 

DanC

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The tom arms are cast on ends, but the tubes aren't anything special. The cheapo tube cutter from Lowe's easily cuts it. The receiver casting excision is also cake with the simple pipe cutter. That protuberance is made from the metallic equivalent of angel food cake. I still have some offcuts in my pipe drawer and they are bubbly inside. Highly recommend it over vise and hacksaw.
Seems to me a hacksaw and a grinder--or even a simple flat file--would be a five minute job. No?

Exactly...
 

rhythmace

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If, for any reason, you ever took the RIMS mount off, having half of the chrome mount arm left, would make it closer to original. It might be easier to cut it in the middle. It might add a little strength to the mount (Over the decades, who knows?) If you ever look up in there, you see chrome instead of flat finish. LOL! Let me go as far out there as I can. What if you want to wedge something between the two pipes to align the smaller pipe better into the shell hole? I think I need coffee. Ace
P.S. You want the smaller pipe going all the way to the shell, at least, to give you the most room to adjust the drum position if ever needed. You might sell these drums someday. They will out live us anyway. LOL! If cutting the inner arm just short of the shell, why cut the outer chrome arm shorter?
P.P.S. Since mine will have 0 tom mount arm, I will let you know how that goes. I am sure it will work fine.
 

rhythmace

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If you order the non modified plate it will save you $20.00 per plate. You will only lose about 1" of travel adjustment in length without the hole in the plate. Just remember, Gary said it was a lot of labor grinding that mount fit flat again the plate. That's why he used a gasket on mine. He said it was because of the curve in the plate. I don't know why "not cutting" the arm will make it fit better. Then you have the notch in the hoop issue. Ace
P.S. Earlier,in this thread, it looked like Gary was going to get a bunch of orders, right off the bat. It's hard to say now that we know you can't just order the plates. I was concerned about too many arms getting cut to exact length. XP8 arms (the teeth part) won't fit the others either.
 

rhythmace

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Tuning observation. This applies to the 12" XP8 tom and the three 13" Big R toms. (one XP8 and the other two not) The first thing that makes these toms come alive is having the top and bottom heads the same tension. I also lowered the tuning some in the process. Especially the top head. That may be a significant part of the drums coming alive. Not doing that just kills the sound and sustain. I was just messing with the 2 non XP8 13" toms. I had one with the mount arm and the extension arm all the way in. The other had the cut off mount with no arm going into the drum. The one without the arms was a little more "percussive" in the attack. A slightly harder attack. This was minor compared to not having the top and bottom heads tuned the same. Ace

P.S. My XP8 tom arms are shorter than the earlier arms. 12" compared to 4 1/2". I stuffed cotton balls into these shorter arms and didn't notice a difference.
 

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If, for any reason, you ever took the RIMS mount off, having half of the chrome mount arm left, would make it closer to original. It might be easier to cut it in the middle. It might add a little strength to the mount (Over the decades, who knows?) If you ever look up in there, you see chrome instead of flat finish. LOL! Let me go as far out there as I can. What if you want to wedge something between the two pipes to align the smaller pipe better into the shell hole? I think I need coffee. Ace
P.S. You want the smaller pipe going all the way to the shell, at least, to give you the most room to adjust the drum position if ever needed. You might sell these drums someday. They will out live us anyway. LOL! If cutting the inner arm just short of the shell, why cut the outer chrome arm shorter?
P.P.S. Since mine will have 0 tom mount arm, I will let you know how that goes. I am sure it will work fine.
My guess is that most of us don't want to permanently alter the original mounts we have. So, we'll find reasonably cared for used pieces on eBay and start hacking and grinding. No big deal. Once I get my toms set the way I want, I never alter them, so when the arms are cut to length, I'll be good to go.

If I sell my drums, the original stuff goes back into place and I save the RIMS mounts for my next set. The sourced used Rogers parts either go onto my next Rogers Memriloc set (if that happens) or into the dumpster, or maybe the new owner will want them.

Bottom line, I really have no intention of selling my drums, as I've owned them since new. I may gig them at some time, and I'd like to hear 'em sing.

Now I need to buy the full RIMS getup, and need to source a couple of Memriloc tom mounts. I actually have a couple that I mashed onto some Big R timbales that I never use, so there ya go. I already have the extra arms.

So, for my next project, I might spend the $ on some RIMS goodies...
 

rhythmace

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"Terry, (Rhythmace)

I picked up the cutting tool on Saturday so I'll get the hole cut as soon as possible and get the plates back in the mail.

Gary"

Gary should receive the plates about on Wednesday/Thursday. I sent money for the labor this morning via Paypal. I also asked him about the DiY comments. I mentioned the notch in the hoop. After he cuts the holes in my plates, he can see how flush the mount fits. I am sure some of you guys can do it all. I don't think I want an part of cutting off the entire mount extension. LOL! Let's see what he says? Ace
 

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"Terry,(Rhythmace)

They could do it by themselves and cutting the notch isn't difficult. The holes in the side plates are tricky since aluminum is softer than steel and scratches very easy. If you don't get the holes placed correctly it looks pretty bad. We used our milling machine that lines up all 3 holes perfectly and uses a calibrated moving table that accurately places the holes exactly where needed.
I first experimented with cutting the large hole for the mount in a scrap side plate with a hole saw. It was not a pretty sight....it really 'chewed up' the plate, left the edges very rough. Although you wouldn't see it after the mount is attached it really looked awful.....a bit of a butcher job that I abandon immediately as an option.
That's why I knew I would need to purchase a tool specific for the large hole. The other 2 holes just use a standard 7/16" (sharp) drill bit.

They could cut the notch with a 1/2" 'rat tail' file. The biggest problem would be for the large 1-3/8" hole.
They could purchase the standard mount and request a 'blank' side plate by separate e-mail. There would be no additional cost to add the blank plate since we already have a few of them in stock (raw). We would need to anodize the plates but that's not a problem if we put them in with another side plate order which is what I did with your plates.

Gary"

I didn't convey to Gary that the DIY guys don't plan on cutting the large hole in the plate. Will see what he says about that. Ace
 

rhythmace

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Might as well cut the arm holes in the gaskets. Used an exacto knife. I'm going to check out the sound with no mount extensions, and short tom holder arms, stuffed with cotton. Ace
IMG_0450.JPG
 

rhythmace

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TEST RESULTS
Using two XP8 toms with same heads. One 12" and one 13". Both with the tom mount extensions cut off outside the shell. Both holder arms stuffed with cotton. With just the smaller inner arms inside the shell, the result is......the less arm in the shell, the better. 2" just kills the sustain. A good but short sound. 1" is a very good sound. 0 is just a tiny bit better. Maybe not enough to cut the arm that short though. With a RIMS mount, it might even be insignificant.
Second. Holding the toms by one tension rod, and comparing to another at the end of the holding arm.......very significant sustain difference. At this point, for Memriloc small toms on the bass drum, you need to tune both heads the same, and low enough to make the drum come alive. Install RIMS Mounts, and not have any mount arm and not more than 1" inner arm inside the shell. Maybe none. Will find out later. All of this is assuming that you want the most open, big booming tom sound that the drums can produce. Just good tuning and little to no arms in the shell makes a big imrpovement though. IMO Ace
P.S. The rubber gaskets closed the gap between the inner tom arms and the shell. Of course the mounting bolts filled the little holes, without the RIMS mount, in this case. That and the cotton balls, prevented any excess venting. That gap might be an issue later when I use RIMS.
 

rhythmace

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"Terry, (Rhythmace)

Received your plates this morning, added the larger hole and got them back in the mail a few minutes ago....

BTW, the Rogers Holiday drum set that my friend showed me had chrome over brass hoops on the Rogers snare drum. Was that an option on any of their drums. The set was in excellent condition and didn't look that used so why did this particular set have those hoops ?
Interesting.....

Some additional info on some of the Roger's design guys from the 60's.

I lived and grew up in a small town near Philadelphia and would occasionally go into Phila when I was in High School to a drum shop called Tolin and Welsh 'Drum City'. I happened to go into the store one day and met Ellis Tolin who showed me a new snare drum he had helped develop for Rogers. It was the DynaSonic. It was interesting but I remember not really understanding what it was about.....
Sort of amazing that I really didn't have much interest at that time in the mechanics of drums but made up for it later when I began to play professionally......
We did the Nashville Vintage drum show a few weeks ago and had a great response to several of the new products I've been working on......Bart Elliot of Drummer's Cafe did a nice interview with me that can be seen on his site. It's a little long, about 26 minutes but outlines how I got into all this stuff and where my inspiration came from. If your having trouble sleeping some night put this on, it'll put you to sleep real fast......

Gary"
 

FloydZKing

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The tom arms are cast on ends, but the tubes aren't anything special. The cheapo tube cutter from Lowe's easily cuts it. The receiver casting excision is also cake with the simple pipe cutter. That protuberance is made from the metallic equivalent of angel food cake. I still have some offcuts in my pipe drawer and they are bubbly inside. Highly recommend it over vise and hacksaw.
Seems to me a hacksaw and a grinder--or even a simple flat file--would be a five minute job. No?
True enough, nothing wrong with that. Believe me, I'm not shy around hacksaws, I just happen to have the cutter, which I bought a few years back when going through all this with a 5 ply m/l Londoner VII. The cutter does it in about 30 seconds and dresses the edge as it goes. I have cut lots of pipes using both methods. But yes, not necessary at all. Preferable for sure.
 

tommykat1

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"Terry,(Rhythmace)

They could do it by themselves and cutting the notch isn't difficult. The holes in the side plates are tricky since aluminum is softer than steel and scratches very easy. If you don't get the holes placed correctly it looks pretty bad. We used our milling machine that lines up all 3 holes perfectly and uses a calibrated moving table that accurately places the holes exactly where needed.
I first experimented with cutting the large hole for the mount in a scrap side plate with a hole saw. It was not a pretty sight....it really 'chewed up' the plate, left the edges very rough. Although you wouldn't see it after the mount is attached it really looked awful.....a bit of a butcher job that I abandon immediately as an option.
That's why I knew I would need to purchase a tool specific for the large hole. The other 2 holes just use a standard 7/16" (sharp) drill bit.

They could cut the notch with a 1/2" 'rat tail' file. The biggest problem would be for the large 1-3/8" hole.
They could purchase the standard mount and request a 'blank' side plate by separate e-mail. There would be no additional cost to add the blank plate since we already have a few of them in stock (raw). We would need to anodize the plates but that's not a problem if we put them in with another side plate order which is what I did with your plates.

Gary"

I didn't convey to Gary that the DIY guys don't plan on cutting the large hole in the plate. Will see what he says about that. Ace
This is so weird to me. I have a drill press and a hole saw bit that I KNOW will easily slice through aluminum, and, with more difficulty, steel. Just sayin'.

I cut the holes--all of them--in my COB timbales with a simple drill. It wasn't pretty, but after all of the washers and screws were in place, you'd never know.

I think I would buy the virgin RIMS plates and drill my own holes to suit what I discern to be the correct pattern for both strength and aesthetics.

Note that my original interest in the thread was that somehow, some way, the good people at RIMS would make a side plate that would allow me to use my Rogers Memriloc tom mounts without modification. (It was well known from the start that sacrificial arms would have to be cut.) So, since some sacrificial mounts have to be sliced and ground, I think I'd rather choose my own way to do it.
 

rhythmace

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Here is my left tom with the mount extension cut off and the factory shorter tom arm.(uncut) It sounds fine here (about 1" in). Extending the arm into the drum any farther, starts to affect the sound to my ears. No arm into the shell would be ideal. (I don't know if that 1" matters or is it in my head? It might matter for those recording) The plates should be here in the next few days, or tomorrow, and I will be curious to see if the tom arm still aligns in the hole without touching. Also will touching matter that much? If it touches, I will try it with a piece of the left over gasket hole material to insulate the arm from the shell. The tom on the right is a whole other issue. It needs to be adjusted all the way inward for ergonomics. BTW, I am not finding the XP8 compatible tom arms, much less at a decent price. Dave Drew is looking into his stock. E-bay prices are high. I just hope, down the road, we don't end up with more Memriloc toms, than decent length, tom arms. Ace
P.S. I might still end up cutting the tom arm just short of the shell. Just an inch or so if needed. Also, $20.00 to have Gary cut even the two mounting holes and the notch in the hoop in aluminum is what I recommend for most players. Then just cut the mount extension in half and set it up. Setting up the flanges on the hoop is not a piece of cake, BTW. More on that technique later.
IMG_0452.JPG
 

rhythmace

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Great interview with Gary Gauger at Drummercafe.com. Type in Gauger in the search box. Very interesting guy. Ace
 

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