Not "getting" Memriloc

rhythmace

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Paul (troutstudio), I love my new sound. "The better the drums sound, the more fun it is! :icon_smile:-Tommy Wells." I got into playing, yesterday, and it was like I was back in high school. I am SO glad I did it, and want to thank everyone for the help and suggestions. Gary Gauger is a fantastic guy with a ton of patience. "Amosguy" made the suggestion in the second post on page one, here. Tommy Wells wrote the book, here, on the history and real world experiences from the beginning of M/L type hardware. Dan and FloydZking, SteveB, Swivo etc. were where I am years ago. Cauldronics started this thread and stayed persistent in experimenting with what works and what doesn't. Everyone here contributed to the reality of RIMS Mounts for Big R drums. Example. $73.70 for the Internet price of a 12"/ 6 lug drum, RIMS mount, in platinum. Add $20.0 for the modified plate. No shipping in USA, or taxes, unless in Minnesota. $93.70 total, and you don't send your tom mounts. These are the new aluminum alloy with new grommet material and look great. Ace

P.S. Troutstudio, I am very impressed with those plates. You could make money, with those, if it wasn't for the shipping to Australia.
P.P.S. Thanks to Tommycat1 also, and where is he?
 

tommykat1

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P.P.S. Thanks to Tommycat1 also, and where is he?
I'm right here, Ace! Thanks to all for all of the effort.

Most important to this thread is Gary Gauger's commitment to a bunch of obsessive Rogers fanatics! And your efforts in working with him, Ace, are really, really exemplary.

So...the question is, do I buy or not buy? This is a personal decision for each of us.

Everyone needs to know the additional details, the "fine print," if you will: if you don't wish to modify your existing Memriloc tom mounts and connecting arms, you will need to purchase donors to be cut down. this is an additional expense. Also, there is the need for additional fasteners, as you have mentioned that some of the original washers are too large, and screws are too long.

None of this is insurmountable if you feel your XP8s don't sound good enough live on stage, and you don't mind paying a few hundred dollars for modifications. (I will add here that many Rogers endorsers in the 70s and 80s played their Memriloc drums live with no mods. However, as Tommy Wells has mentioned, there is a liability when doing studio recording where isolation becomes a key component for today's sound.)

After analyzing all that has been stated here, and in realizing that one will need to be somewhat proficient with a hacksaw, grinder, and flat bastard file, I have to pose this question: what's so difficult in drilling a couple of holes in the currently available "universal" RIMS mounting plates? Why spend the extra money on a multi-holed conglomeration when you already have your tools out?

Sorry to rain on the parade here, but if I'm going to go to all the trouble of modifying my drum set, the easiest thing to do would be to drill two holes in an aluminum plate. Just sayin', and just my .02.

Note that early on in this thread, I mistakenly thought that some amazing machine work was going to be performed by the RIMS people that would allow me to keep all of my mint Memriloc hardware intact. The fact is, this is a an easy Saturday afternoon job if you have the donor parts available and spend the $ on the standard RIMS system. I see no need to spend extra money for pre-drilled plates.

And, hey, as has been mentioned, some of us are happy with the sound of our XP8s as originally configured...

Anyway, I'm still reviewing this, and if I've missed anything, please chime in and correct me.

Ace, and Cauldronics, and everyone else, thanks again for making this a very fine thread to read.
 

rhythmace

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Some of my mounting bolts are 1/2" and some are 5/8" long. Only the shorter ones work. I somehow ended up with 9/16" wide washers. Those are not as wide as the stock ones, therefore the notch in the hoop is smaller. I wouldn't want the notch bigger, for the stock washers. You probably just need two new washers per plate.

Just cutting two mounting holes in the plate won't work. The mount won't fit flat. Maybe it worked with the older plates? Gary cuts the notch in the hoop also. All for 20 bucks and you don't have to send a mount. Also, most of us are going to mark up, or bend the new aluminum alloy plates or hoop. Cosmetics are important to me.

If you tune your toms low, to get that big sound, it's simple to know if you want RIMS mount. Just hit the tom while holding it by a tension rod, to compare. With an XP8 tom and the shorter tom arms, you might still be happy with your sound. I do think the longer toms arms dull the sound, a lot. Ace
 

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After analyzing all that has been stated here, and in realizing that one will need to be somewhat proficient with a hacksaw, grinder, and flat bastard file, I have to pose this question: what's so difficult in drilling a couple of holes in the currently available "universal" RIMS mounting plates? Why spend the extra money on a multi-holed conglomeration when you already have your tools out?

Sorry to rain on the parade here, but if I'm going to go to all the trouble of modifying my drum set, the easiest thing to do would be to drill two holes in an aluminum plate. Just sayin', and just my .02.

Note that early on in this thread, I mistakenly thought that some amazing machine work was going to be performed by the RIMS people that would allow me to keep all of my mint Memriloc hardware intact. The fact is, this is a an easy Saturday afternoon job if you have the donor parts available and spend the $ on the standard RIMS system. I see no need to spend extra money for pre-drilled plates.

And, hey, as has been mentioned, some of us are happy with the sound of our XP8s as originally configured...

Anyway, I'm still reviewing this, and if I've missed anything, please chime in and correct me.

Ace, and Cauldronics, and everyone else, thanks again for making this a very fine thread to read.
I think you could do all your own modifications using the standard RIMS system, as long as you don't care how it looks, how stable it is and how it sounds.
When you have a business, a trademarked name that has become the Kleenex or Sheetrock of the drumming world, and have held a patent on your product, you don't offer up makeshift "solutions" because you know better and have a reputation to protect. You're thinking this is an easy Saturday afternoon job that you can do with a hacksaw, grinder and flat bastard file. Gary has done this kind of thing before, which is why he has put 30 years into it and uses a milling machine to do the work.
Your thoughts are that even though you haven't done the work, you're sure your approach would work just as well and would be cheaper. Maybe it would work, to your satisfaction and budget. The difference is, you think your approach should work; Gary knows that his approach does work.
 

tommykat1

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After analyzing all that has been stated here, and in realizing that one will need to be somewhat proficient with a hacksaw, grinder, and flat bastard file, I have to pose this question: what's so difficult in drilling a couple of holes in the currently available "universal" RIMS mounting plates? Why spend the extra money on a multi-holed conglomeration when you already have your tools out?

Sorry to rain on the parade here, but if I'm going to go to all the trouble of modifying my drum set, the easiest thing to do would be to drill two holes in an aluminum plate. Just sayin', and just my .02.

Note that early on in this thread, I mistakenly thought that some amazing machine work was going to be performed by the RIMS people that would allow me to keep all of my mint Memriloc hardware intact. The fact is, this is a an easy Saturday afternoon job if you have the donor parts available and spend the $ on the standard RIMS system. I see no need to spend extra money for pre-drilled plates.

And, hey, as has been mentioned, some of us are happy with the sound of our XP8s as originally configured...

Anyway, I'm still reviewing this, and if I've missed anything, please chime in and correct me.

Ace, and Cauldronics, and everyone else, thanks again for making this a very fine thread to read.
I think you could do all your own modifications using the standard RIMS system, as long as you don't care how it looks, how stable it is and how it sounds.
When you have a business, a trademarked name that has become the Kleenex or Sheetrock of the drumming world, and have held a patent on your product, you don't offer up makeshift "solutions" because you know better and have a reputation to protect. You're thinking this is an easy Saturday afternoon job that you can do with a hacksaw, grinder and flat bastard file. Gary has done this kind of thing before, which is why he has put 30 years into it and uses a milling machine to do the work.
Your thoughts are that even though you haven't done the work, you're sure your approach would work just as well and would be cheaper. Maybe it would work, to your satisfaction and budget. The difference is, you think your approach should work; Gary knows that his approach does work.
ARguy, apologies offered. I can see why you reacted to my post the way you did. Due to it being such a long thread, you may have missed both DanC's and SteveB's detailed posts on how they added screw holes to the standard universal side plates offered by RIMS. These are designed to be modified by the customer. The difficult part isn't in drilling holes (either with a professional drill press, or with a standard cordless drill, both of which I have). The hard art is flattening the rounded edge of the donor Rogers Memriloc mount without tearing up too much of the chrome! This mount has to fit flat on the Rims mount, or a rubber gasket would have to be fashioned, or a combination of both. All of this has been discussed in the 15 pages of this thread.

Indeed, with all of the work that still needs to be done AFTER you receive the new Rogers RIMS plates customized by Gary, the hardest work is yet to be performed. The easiest part would be drilling holes. SteveB and DanC have verified this, as they have performed the modifications.

So, I'm still trying to decide whether spending the additional $40 for two custom plates is a good deal or not. And I also still have to locate two Rogers Memriloc tom mounts. I have the donor tom arms, but I'm still needing to spend a good amount of dough to complete the project, and I'm wondering out loud whether it's worth it or not.
 

rhythmace

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Tommy, I wouldn't hesitate cutting the extension part of the tom mounts. Like Gary suggested, leave 1/4" to 1/2" on. That's a good idea even without adding RIMS mounts. You could cut the tom arms back also, to where none is in the shell, or just even with the short mount extension. That might be all the tone and sustain you need. Ace
 

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Although I'm not taking part in the M/L RIMS purchase, it's rewarding to see that the original topic turned into a solution for even a handful of people. It seemed like something was wrong with a drum when the audible difference between holding it by a tension rod and striking it versus leaving it on its original mounting system was so dramatic. Just saying it's cool to see this thread became a new development with a few sharp minds that were up to the task. It doesn't happen very often.

Also, almost everyone remained civil throughout, which also doesn't happen that often.

:occasion5:
 

rhythmace

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I started out a blank slate on RIMS mounts. I have re-read this thread twice, and in parts, many times. There is so much top notch information to glean. It's a full realm of different opinions and perspectives. I asked Gary this morning what heads he recommends. I love this. Ace

"Terry, (Rhythmace)

I've always felt that the characteristics of any drum head is more pronounced with RIMS® since it allows the shell to fully support what the drum head is doing. They really work together to produce the ultimate sound of resonance and tone the same way the strings function with the hollow body of an acoustic violin, guitar, bass, Cello, etc.

Any choice of heads usually revolves around the style of music your playing. If you're a rock player and real heavy hitter you usually need a thicker head like Pin-Strips or double ply layers especially on your snare drum. I usually use standard Remo coated heads on my toms with a Fiber Skin on the snare. I also like the 'vintage' Aquarian head for snare drum. Roy Burns from Aquarian always sends me any of their new heads since we're both older style players that learned to play on calif skin which has a sound all it's own. Both Mel Lewis and Shelly Manne told me they only used calf skin heads when ever possible when they recorded. Mel used them on the top heads and always on the snare drum when he recorded with his big band. He was using a tympani head on his bass drum a few years before he passed. I was told by a friend of mine in New York that his bass drum sound was amazing when he head them at the Vangard. I picked up a calf head at the Chicago 'Vintage' show 2 years ago and have been using that for most of the gigs I do since I play a lot of brushes....can't beat (no pun intended) the brush sound on calf skin.
Remo's Suede heads are very nice. He also has a head he started making about 3 years ago that is very thick and has no coating which is very popular with the heavy rockers.....It's almost impossible to dent them
If you take into account the thicker shells on your Rogers drums that may have some bearing on what you choose. If you remember the tests I did between the thicker XP8 shells and the thinner shells from the 70's the thicker shells tend to produce more 'lows' and less 'highs' so I would stay away from thicker heads since that may make them too dull or 'muddy' sounding.

With all this said it's really a choice of what sounds best to you but I also realize they're is a wear factor and cost involved so several decisions need to be weighed when you choose from the many heads currently on the market.

Gary"
 

ARGuy

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After analyzing all that has been stated here, and in realizing that one will need to be somewhat proficient with a hacksaw, grinder, and flat bastard file, I have to pose this question: what's so difficult in drilling a couple of holes in the currently available "universal" RIMS mounting plates? Why spend the extra money on a multi-holed conglomeration when you already have your tools out?

Sorry to rain on the parade here, but if I'm going to go to all the trouble of modifying my drum set, the easiest thing to do would be to drill two holes in an aluminum plate. Just sayin', and just my .02.

Note that early on in this thread, I mistakenly thought that some amazing machine work was going to be performed by the RIMS people that would allow me to keep all of my mint Memriloc hardware intact. The fact is, this is a an easy Saturday afternoon job if you have the donor parts available and spend the $ on the standard RIMS system. I see no need to spend extra money for pre-drilled plates.

And, hey, as has been mentioned, some of us are happy with the sound of our XP8s as originally configured...

Anyway, I'm still reviewing this, and if I've missed anything, please chime in and correct me.

Ace, and Cauldronics, and everyone else, thanks again for making this a very fine thread to read.
I think you could do all your own modifications using the standard RIMS system, as long as you don't care how it looks, how stable it is and how it sounds.
When you have a business, a trademarked name that has become the Kleenex or Sheetrock of the drumming world, and have held a patent on your product, you don't offer up makeshift "solutions" because you know better and have a reputation to protect. You're thinking this is an easy Saturday afternoon job that you can do with a hacksaw, grinder and flat bastard file. Gary has done this kind of thing before, which is why he has put 30 years into it and uses a milling machine to do the work.
Your thoughts are that even though you haven't done the work, you're sure your approach would work just as well and would be cheaper. Maybe it would work, to your satisfaction and budget. The difference is, you think your approach should work; Gary knows that his approach does work.
ARguy, apologies offered. I can see why you reacted to my post the way you did. Due to it being such a long thread, you may have missed both DanC's and SteveB's detailed posts on how they added screw holes to the standard universal side plates offered by RIMS. These are designed to be modified by the customer. The difficult part isn't in drilling holes (either with a professional drill press, or with a standard cordless drill, both of which I have). The hard art is flattening the rounded edge of the donor Rogers Memriloc mount without tearing up too much of the chrome! This mount has to fit flat on the Rims mount, or a rubber gasket would have to be fashioned, or a combination of both. All of this has been discussed in the 15 pages of this thread.

Indeed, with all of the work that still needs to be done AFTER you receive the new Rogers RIMS plates customized by Gary, the hardest work is yet to be performed. The easiest part would be drilling holes. SteveB and DanC have verified this, as they have performed the modifications.

So, I'm still trying to decide whether spending the additional $40 for two custom plates is a good deal or not. And I also still have to locate two Rogers Memriloc tom mounts. I have the donor tom arms, but I'm still needing to spend a good amount of dough to complete the project, and I'm wondering out loud whether it's worth it or not.
No apologies necessary - I'm the one who needs to apologize!
Sorry I misinterpreted your post. :oops:
I have read a lot of the 15 (!) pages, but not in detail like you guys have since I'm not an Memriloc owner, so I didn't pay as much attention to the detailed aspects of this discussion. This is what happens when you don't pay attention, I guess!
I am a RIMS owner of 30 years and have found them to be very helpful especially with dual rack mount toms. I think you would really notice and like the change in sound RIMS mounts would provide.
Good luck, and - again - sorry.
 

tommykat1

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Tommy, I wouldn't hesitate cutting the extension part of the tom mounts. Like Gary suggested, leave 1/4" to 1/2" on. That's a good idea even without adding RIMS mounts. You could cut the tom arms back also, to where none is in the shell, or just even with the short mount extension. That might be all the tone and sustain you need. Ace
Ace, I read you loud and clear. These are great ideas to try even before buying the RIMS system. I have the extra "donor" tom arms to start slicing off. Now I need at least two Memriloc tom mounts. I have a 7 piece XP8 set (4 rack toms, 12, 13, 14 and 15) that, ideally, I should experiment with.

Sigh. The days aren't long enough, and, at present, I'm gigging my 5 piece 1967 Swivomatic Londoner 5, the sound of which I'm very happy with. So...the whole RIMS idea is languishing. Who knows, if I find some tom mounts at a good deal, I'd be back in the game in a minute. That part is the holdup right now. I won't buy the RIMS system until I have all the pieces in place, so to speak.
 

tommykat1

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After analyzing all that has been stated here, and in realizing that one will need to be somewhat proficient with a hacksaw, grinder, and flat bastard file, I have to pose this question: what's so difficult in drilling a couple of holes in the currently available "universal" RIMS mounting plates? Why spend the extra money on a multi-holed conglomeration when you already have your tools out?

Sorry to rain on the parade here, but if I'm going to go to all the trouble of modifying my drum set, the easiest thing to do would be to drill two holes in an aluminum plate. Just sayin', and just my .02.

Note that early on in this thread, I mistakenly thought that some amazing machine work was going to be performed by the RIMS people that would allow me to keep all of my mint Memriloc hardware intact. The fact is, this is a an easy Saturday afternoon job if you have the donor parts available and spend the $ on the standard RIMS system. I see no need to spend extra money for pre-drilled plates.

And, hey, as has been mentioned, some of us are happy with the sound of our XP8s as originally configured...

Anyway, I'm still reviewing this, and if I've missed anything, please chime in and correct me.

Ace, and Cauldronics, and everyone else, thanks again for making this a very fine thread to read.
I think you could do all your own modifications using the standard RIMS system, as long as you don't care how it looks, how stable it is and how it sounds.
When you have a business, a trademarked name that has become the Kleenex or Sheetrock of the drumming world, and have held a patent on your product, you don't offer up makeshift "solutions" because you know better and have a reputation to protect. You're thinking this is an easy Saturday afternoon job that you can do with a hacksaw, grinder and flat bastard file. Gary has done this kind of thing before, which is why he has put 30 years into it and uses a milling machine to do the work.
Your thoughts are that even though you haven't done the work, you're sure your approach would work just as well and would be cheaper. Maybe it would work, to your satisfaction and budget. The difference is, you think your approach should work; Gary knows that his approach does work.
ARguy, apologies offered. I can see why you reacted to my post the way you did. Due to it being such a long thread, you may have missed both DanC's and SteveB's detailed posts on how they added screw holes to the standard universal side plates offered by RIMS. These are designed to be modified by the customer. The difficult part isn't in drilling holes (either with a professional drill press, or with a standard cordless drill, both of which I have). The hard art is flattening the rounded edge of the donor Rogers Memriloc mount without tearing up too much of the chrome! This mount has to fit flat on the Rims mount, or a rubber gasket would have to be fashioned, or a combination of both. All of this has been discussed in the 15 pages of this thread.

Indeed, with all of the work that still needs to be done AFTER you receive the new Rogers RIMS plates customized by Gary, the hardest work is yet to be performed. The easiest part would be drilling holes. SteveB and DanC have verified this, as they have performed the modifications.

So, I'm still trying to decide whether spending the additional $40 for two custom plates is a good deal or not. And I also still have to locate two Rogers Memriloc tom mounts. I have the donor tom arms, but I'm still needing to spend a good amount of dough to complete the project, and I'm wondering out loud whether it's worth it or not.
No apologies necessary - I'm the one who needs to apologize!
Sorry I misinterpreted your post. :oops:
I have read a lot of the 15 (!) pages, but not in detail like you guys have since I'm not an Memriloc owner, so I didn't pay as much attention to the detailed aspects of this discussion. This is what happens when you don't pay attention, I guess!
I am a RIMS owner of 30 years and have found them to be very helpful especially with dual rack mount toms. I think you would really notice and like the change in sound RIMS mounts would provide.
Good luck, and - again - sorry.
ARGuy, again, no sweat, just a misunderstanding This is one looooooooooong thread, with a heckuva a lot of solid input. Pretty cool, actually! :rolleyes:
 

Cauldronics

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Who knows, if I find some tom mounts at a good deal, I'd be back in the game in a minute. That part is the holdup right now. I won't buy the RIMS system until I have all the pieces in place, so to speak.
This should get you started. There's a bunch available on ebay. Rogers memriloc search on ebay

The bass drum leg mounts and tom mounts are the same, btw.
 

rhythmace

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Those mounts sure have gone up in price. Even the one for #20.00 doesn't have the thumb screw. I bought a white Big R concert tom, with a generic rim, for $30.00. Ace
 

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Yes, I've been checking. Too expensive. I got 3 arms for cheap. I can cut those to size and improve the sound already. But the Memriloc mounts! Too much $!!
 

rhythmace

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I made an announcement thread about the RIMS mounts. Mike is going to see about leaving it at the top for a while. I hope Gary gets some business since he has put a lot of time into this. Ace
 

rhythmace

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Now I am thinking about plugging the big holes in both XP8 shells. I did it once with a stripped orphan, shown here, using dowel rods, but would like to match the 8 ply wood as close as possible. Anyone have any idea? I guess I should contact Keller or Lawton? This was a New England white Fullerton tom with broken wrap. Tons of work getting the wrap off. Ace
100_0252.JPG
100_0251.JPG
P.S. All of this has pulled me into a whole new level of tom tuning. If you get your toms singing, the size of the drum takes care of the interval. Just now, less than a 16th of a turn on my 13" top head, made a significant difference.
 

rhythmace

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I finally decided to cut one of my dog bones in half. It's good that I measured exactly and made a markin the exact middle. I got right between the solid inside rods. I cut it with a dremel tool. I got the 13" mounted, after putting tape over the mounting holes. I also put a new clear ambassador on the bottom to match the top. Next will be doing the 12" with the other half of the dog bone. Ace
IMG_0483.JPG
 

rhythmace

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Done. Taped over the holes on both toms. Still doing a bit of tuning after taking heads off and replacing the botton head on the 13". Check out the inside of the toms. "Look Ma.....no arms !!!" The 12" really sings. Still tuning the 13'. It's good though. Ace
IMG_0492.JPG
IMG_0489.JPG
IMG_0490.JPG
View attachment 147799
View attachment 147800
P.S.Got the 13" right now also. Man I love the sound. I feel like I have a bigger tone interval between the toms now. It's just what my set needed. I have Aquarian double thins on the batter for both FTs. I don't like the difference in sound. I think I need to put clear Ambassadors on them too. They are not XP8s, but hope the head change works. Ace
P.P.S Just ordered a clear 16" Ambassasor from MF. Just $16.99 shipped. Hope it blends the tones better.
 

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rhythmace

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I wrote to Gary today about my 13" not having quite as much sustain as the 12" . Here is the reply. Ace


Terry, (Rhythmace)

The mounts really look great on your Rogers drums. What's most important to me is the fact that they now SOUND equally as good as they look.
Here's some interesting information that's pertinent to your 13" drum......

Chris McHugh drummer for Keith Urban mentioned to me at the Nashville Drum Show in Sept. that his 13" didn't sustain as much as his 12". He uses all Craviotto drums which are excellent 1 piece, steam bent shells. The number of contact points from our suspension mounts on a drum can greatly affect the sustain so we only recommend using the minimal number of flanges on the smaller drums like 3 on 8" through 12" and only 4 on our larger 13" drums through 16".
I recommended to Keith that he remove one of the flanges on his 13" and go with only 3 flanges since 3 should be more than sufficient to support his drum. It solved the problem since I had an e-mail from Chris a few days after the show that said removing the extra flange made all the difference in the resonance and the 13" drum now matches the sustain of the 12". I would suggest that you try this if you want to experiment a little further. Make sure the flange you remove is on the high side of the tilted or angled drum.

We are now considering recommending and supplying only 3 flanges with the 13" RIMS® Alloy mount since the difference in sustain is quite obvious.

Let me know what you discover if you try it out....

Regards,
Gary"
 

Cauldronics

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Interesting. By "flanges" does he mean one of the 4 holes in the RIMs mount? So what do you do, saw it off?

Fwiw, I bought a couple of Worldmax RSS mounts for my XP-8 12 and 13 and they're working great. Cheap, too!

Just getting into playing that kit more full time and it sounds really good. I could go for a little more attack from the 12, so a clear head or a coated ambassador X like what's on the 13 will do the trick. The 13 has plenty of attack.

Btw, check out this beauty. I wish it was available when I was on the hunt for an XP-8, although I love mine.
Platinum XP-8
 


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