OBP Jazz Festival - follow up to Recent Thread

Ludwigboy

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A lot of interesting information coming out in this thread and I am learning a lot ...thanks for sharing your snare, Reckdriver.:)

In my opinion and not trying to rain on anyone's parade, all original Oyster Black Pearl wrap snares whether Pioneer, Jazz Fest or as well as Super Classic and Symphonic models (as the last two were also available also in the pearl finishes.) would look great behind a Oyster Black Pearl Super Classic, Downbeat or Hollywood or Jazzette set.

Yes, the Super Classic and the Symphonic had the Classic throw-off as opposed to the P-83 strainer but the fact is all the models above look the same behind a kit and only a Ludwig drum/Ringo afficionado would know the accuracy and are aware of the Ringo spec snare with the badge, throw-off and muffler positions and the 5.5" width.

I love these threads as it brings forth a lot of great information to learn about the intracies of the Jazz Fest, and especially the ones in OBP with different widths than the catalogue models

Looking forward to seeing your restoration photos in the future, Reckdriver ;)
 
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Ludwigboy

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I fully agree with this. I can't prove things like that for sure but I also think the it happened later on when Ludwig was cranking sets out and some probably got lost in the mix. My OBP Super Classic has all the characteristics of a 1966 set as the serials all fall in the 270XXX range, the set has white BB mufflers and white paint inside. It's har to make out the last number but the set has a Dec 22 1968 date stamp and the rail mount has the block 70's logo. I have owned the set since 1999 and it also originally came with a block logo late 60's logo head which I foolishly put with another set that I sold. (will never do that again). I don't think my set was ever messed with and it's my belief that the wrapped and badged shells got lost in the shuffle of crazy busy. This could certainly be the case with this jazzfest that "should" be a 5x14. I would love to know for sure what the area looked like that had wrapped shells waiting to be made into sets. I can totally see some of those shells being buried as new ones were being made.
Kurt, I could be wrong but wonder your date stamp is Dec 22,1965 as opposed to 68.....
i have a original 65 Oyster Blue set with the serial numbers ; two in the 236xxx range and one in the 239xxx range with date stamps of Oct.14,1965, Oct 15,1965 and Oct 18,1965; my kit has the script logo on the rail mount
Is it possible the reso head was changed out in the late 60's ?
 

wflkurt

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Kurt, I could be wrong but wonder your date stamp is Dec 22,1965 as opposed to 68.....
i have a original 65 Oyster Blue set with the serial numbers ; two in the 236xxx range and one in the 239xxx range with date stamps of Oct.14,1965, Oct 15,1965 and Oct 18,1965; my kit has the script logo on the rail mount
Is it possible the reso head was changed out in the late 60's ?
Anything is possible but when I got the set, it had the block logo 60's logo head that first appeared in the early part of 1968 and the rail mount is also embossed with the block logo. I have looked at that stamp pretty carefully and blown it up quite a bit and it "appears" to be either an 8 or a 9 but then again anything is possible. Unfortunately the inside of the bass drum is painted black by a previous owner and the 9x13 is not stamped. I have seen other sets that were stamped much later than they should be. This 1969 Mod Orange is a perfect example of a drum set that "should" be from early 1968 yet it is clearly stamped 1969. Either way, I am happy my set has the later rail mount as it works much better than one from say 1965.
 

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Ludwigboy

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Anything is possible but when I got the set, it had the block logo 60's logo head that first appeared in the early part of 1968 and the rail mount is also embossed with the block logo. I have looked at that stamp pretty carefully and blown it up quite a bit and it "appears" to be either an 8 or a 9 but then again anything is possible. Unfortunately the inside of the bass drum is painted black by a previous owner and the 9x13 is not stamped. I have seen other sets that were stamped much later than they should be. This 1969 Mod Orange is a perfect example of a drum set that "should" be from early 1968 yet it is clearly stamped 1969. Either way, I am happy my set has the later rail mount as it works much better than one from say 1965.
Very interesting, I see your point though.
 

jmetatual

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#1 is the first picture I took, pulling up on the tape, ensuring the tape's end was in contact with the reso-side bearing edge. At a glance, I read 5 and 9/16".
#2 picture shows tape pulled with picture taken from closer to a right angle and seems to read 5-7/16". What do we conclude?
View attachment 559640 View attachment 559641
Reckdriver, the conclusion is that pictures with tape measures can be deceiving and are unreliable for precise measurements. Picture #2 (slightly under 5-1/2") is certainly better than picture #1, but the bottom line is "What measurement are you seeing in real time?"
 

jmetatual

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It's har to make out the last number but the set has a Dec 22 1968 date stamp
Unfortunately that date stamp is not clear enough to state any particular year with certainty. You are left with other attributes of the set to date it. Rather than try to make illegible date stamps fit my narrative I now prefer to treat them for what they are: un-useable evidence.
 

Reckdriver

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Unfortunately that date stamp is not clear enough to state any particular year with certainty. You are left with other attributes of the set to date it. Rather than try to make illegible date stamps fit my narrative I now prefer to treat them for what they are: un-useable ev

Reckdriver, the conclusion is that pictures with tape measures can be deceiving and are unreliable for precise measurements. Picture #2 (slightly under 5-1/2") is certainly better than picture #1, but the bottom line is "What measurement are you seeing in real time?"
In real time, I'm seeing 5-7/16.
 

Ludwigboy

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Anything is possible but when I got the set, it had the block logo 60's logo head that first appeared in the early part of 1968 and the rail mount is also embossed with the block logo. I have looked at that stamp pretty carefully and blown it up quite a bit and it "appears" to be either an 8 or a 9 but then again anything is possible. Unfortunately the inside of the bass drum is painted black by a previous owner and the 9x13 is not stamped. I have seen other sets that were stamped much later than they should be. This 1969 Mod Orange is a perfect example of a drum set that "should" be from early 1968 yet it is clearly stamped 1969. Either way, I am happy my set has the later rail mount as it works much better than one from say 1965.
...to me, the date stamp on your OBP set is smudged too much for real clarity on the last two digits....to me, they both look like possibly 5, 6 or 8 but my best estimate based on the evidence of the serial numbers, white BB mufflers and white paint would be 1965....those in the know can correct me but I think the white Resacoate interior paint to clear maple transitioned somewhere in mid 1968 or so ...so if your drum set was a Dec 1968, most likely they would all be clear interiors or a mix of white paint and clear interior drums. I am guessing the Ludwig block letterscript arm of the rail mount was added (maybe a more reliable replacement for the clock face one) and the addition of the reso Ludwig block letter logo drum head (maybe previous owner(s) liked the look better than the cursive script or maybe it was removed in its life and lost....we do know in the 70's a lot of drummers removed the reso head and hoop and as collectors/restorers now, I get these kits and are chasing down the reso head and hoops :) ) before you got the set in 1999 ...that is a long span of time between 1965 and 1999.
Sometimes the Ludwig wingnuts on the rack tom mount, bass mount cymbal holder and spur holder can give you clues on the age of the drum if they have not been replaced.
Hope this sheds a little little for you.....

Just my two cents...and maybe worth less than that! ;):)
 

wflkurt

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...to me, the date stamp on your OBP set is smudged too much for real clarity on the last two digits....to me, they both look like possibly 5, 6 or 8 but my best estimate based on the evidence of the serial numbers, white BB mufflers and white paint would be 1965....those in the know can correct me but I think the white Resacoate interior paint to clear maple transitioned somewhere in mid 1968 or so ...so if your drum set was a Dec 1968, most likely they would all be clear interiors or a mix of white paint and clear interior drums. I am guessing the Ludwig block letterscript arm of the rail mount was added (maybe a more reliable replacement for the clock face one) and the addition of the reso Ludwig block letter logo drum head (maybe previous owner(s) liked the look better than the cursive script or maybe it was removed in its life and lost....we do know in the 70's a lot of drummers removed the reso head and hoop and as collectors/restorers now, I get these kits and are chasing down the reso head and hoops :) ) before you got the set in 1999 ...that is a long span of time between 1965 and 1999.
Sometimes the Ludwig wingnuts on the rack tom mount, bass mount cymbal holder and spur holder can give you clues on the age of the drum if they have not been replaced.
Hope this sheds a little little for you.....

Just my two cents...and maybe worth less than that! ;):)


Thanks for your insight as I appreciate all the insight. I am well aware of the transition to maple interior as it happened around March/April of 1968. My set could very easily be an earlier year but it's also not out of the realm of possibility that the shells were left over as the Mod orange set I posted has the white paint with a clear 1969 date stamp. That set is the biggest proof I have ever seen to conclude that things like that did in fact happen, though very rarely. The picture I posted with the date could probably be a better pic as it was taken with an older phone through the badge hole. One of these days I will open up the drum and get a better shot as the last number looks like either and 8 or a 9 up close. Still the stamper could have been sloppy and smudged the date. You are correct though that 1965-1999 is a long span and anything is possible. It's also quite possible that it will never be known what really happened with it. Either way, I have a set that I love and a rail mount that works better than the earlier versions. I suppose i should just shut up and play the damn thing. Lol!
 

Ludwigboy

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Thanks for your insight as I appreciate all the insight. I am well aware of the transition to maple interior as it happened around March/April of 1968. My set could very easily be an earlier year but it's also not out of the realm of possibility that the shells were left over as the Mod orange set I posted has the white paint with a clear 1969 date stamp. That set is the biggest proof I have ever seen to conclude that things like that did in fact happen, though very rarely. The picture I posted with the date could probably be a better pic as it was taken with an older phone through the badge hole. One of these days I will open up the drum and get a better shot as the last number looks like either and 8 or a 9 up close. Still the stamper could have been sloppy and smudged the date. You are correct though that 1965-1999 is a long span and anything is possible. It's also quite possible that it will never be known what really happened with it. Either way, I have a set that I love and a rail mount that works better than the earlier versions. I suppose i should just shut up and play the damn thing. Lol!
Glad to see how much you love your drums and glad to add a little insight :)
 


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