Of all things, a hardware rant

Piggpenn

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And of all companies....Ludwig.

I recently purchased a bopper 3 piece Classic Maples.

So being the snob that I am, my Yamaha hardware wasn't going to do. I wanted to try Atlas.

First, I purchased 3 boom cymbal stands. One top of the line ( for my mounted tom ) and two mid line. They work great and have no hidden surprises or let downs.

On to the next item.

I purchased a mid line snare stand that seems to be modeled after DW. This thing has such an awful offset, it's almost unusable. The balancing act isn't natural. No heavy snare will stay upright without knee coaxing. Not happy.

Let's double down and go big. I bought the top of the line thinking from the pictures it looked more sane. This one seems to be modeled after TAMAs star series.

What a joke of over engineering fail. I could not even get the basket to mount to the square protrusion swivel piece coming out of the slide tube. Either I'm a total idiot or they mounted the swivel stem upside down. There's a notch on one side that I'm presuming let's the lock over flap seat to the protrusion. The only way this stand goes together is with the tighten down wing nuts facing each other.

After a half hour of fiddling with it, I declare it to be either built incorrectly or the biggest POS in its price range.

It is for sure going back and I'll stick with Yamaha. What a let down.
 

Squirrel Man

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Pearl 930 snare stands are REALLY NICE! That's coming from someone who is NOT a big Pearl fan.
The one thing here I can chime in on, I have two of them. They are a little heavy but amazing, sturdy, tight and solid. Easy to maneuver also, one doesn't need a PhD in rocket science to set them up.
 

hsosdrum

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I've been using the Atlas Pro LAP23SS snare stand (the top-of-the-line with the Pillar Clutch) for eight years, and find it to be the best-engineered, most solidly-built and over all best-performing snare stand I've ever used (since 1967 I've used the original W&A Buck Rogers, the original Ludwig Atlas, and the Pearl S900W).

I've used my Atlas Pro with both a wood Dyna-Sonic (reissue) and a brass-on-brass Black Beauty with cast hoops (a heavy drum), and the stand holds either drum solidly without choking the drum or the bottom head. It's easy to adjust, the adjustments absolutely stay where I set them, and the stand stays put on the floor like it is nailed down. Every one of the other stands I listed "danced-around" when I played strong backbeats, requiring that I reposition the snare drum many times during a set. (The Pearl danced the most.) The Atlas Pro never moves at all under my sticks.

Maybe the stand you got is defective, but I wouldn't trade mine for any other snare stand made anywhere by anybody.

Just to make sure we're talking about the same model, this is the LAP23SS that I like so much:

LAP23SSL.jpg
 

Pat A Flafla

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I've been using the Atlas Pro LAP23SS snare stand (the top-of-the-line with the Pillar Clutch) for eight years, and find it to be the best-engineered, most solidly-built and over all best-performing snare stand I've ever used (since 1967 I've used the original W&A Buck Rogers, the original Ludwig Atlas, and the Pearl S900W).

I've used my Atlas Pro with both a wood Dyna-Sonic (reissue) and a brass-on-brass Black Beauty with cast hoops (a heavy drum), and the stand holds either drum solidly without choking the drum or the bottom head. It's easy to adjust, the adjustments absolutely stay where I set them, and the stand stays put on the floor like it is nailed down. Every one of the other stands I listed "danced-around" when I played strong backbeats, requiring that I reposition the snare drum many times during a set. (The Pearl danced the most.) The Atlas Pro never moves at all under my sticks.

Maybe the stand you got is defective, but I wouldn't trade mine for any other snare stand made anywhere by anybody.

Just to make sure we're talking about the same model, this is the LAP23SS that I like so much:

View attachment 511439
When I look at that, I see so many unnecessary potential points of failure. I want my stuff to last forever, and when any one of those points fails, it becomes trash.
To me it just doesn't get better than the old Big R stuff. All they need is some moleskin on the claws to protect the bottom hoop's chrome. So they look old. Just call it Wabi Sabi.
 

ARGuy

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When I look at that, I see so many unnecessary potential points of failure. I want my stuff to last forever, and when any one of those points fails, it becomes trash.
To me it just doesn't get better than the old Big R stuff. All they need is some moleskin on the claws to protect the bottom hoop's chrome. So they look old. Just call it Wabi Sabi.
When I look at any piece of hardware, I see potential points of failure, and I see them on the Big R stand as well - not as many as on the Ludwig, but they're still there. Threads tapped straight into the metal that can strip, wing nuts and wing screws that can fail, drum key head bolts that can wear smooth or get lost. Based on a photo, that's what I see. You say you've used that stand for 40 years and none of those things have happened? Hmm, maybe I should base my assessment of how well hardware works and how long it lasts based on personal experience rather than a photo.
 

varatrodder

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Can’t go wrong with Yamaha or Tama hardware. Ludwig and Gretsch, not so much.
I noticed some of the new Gretsch stuff is just rebranded PDP. It looks like Gretsch G5, PDP Concept and Ludwig Atlas Standard are using the same snare basket as well.
 

Piggpenn

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I've been using the Atlas Pro LAP23SS snare stand (the top-of-the-line with the Pillar Clutch) for eight years, and find it to be the best-engineered, most solidly-built and over all best-performing snare stand I've ever used (since 1967 I've used the original W&A Buck Rogers, the original Ludwig Atlas, and the Pearl S900W).

I've used my Atlas Pro with both a wood Dyna-Sonic (reissue) and a brass-on-brass Black Beauty with cast hoops (a heavy drum), and the stand holds either drum solidly without choking the drum or the bottom head. It's easy to adjust, the adjustments absolutely stay where I set them, and the stand stays put on the floor like it is nailed down. Every one of the other stands I listed "danced-around" when I played strong backbeats, requiring that I reposition the snare drum many times during a set. (The Pearl danced the most.) The Atlas Pro never moves at all under my sticks.

Maybe the stand you got is defective, but I wouldn't trade mine for any other snare stand made anywhere by anybody.

Just to make sure we're talking about the same model, this is the LAP23SS that I like so much:

View attachment 511439
This is the exact 2nd purchase I made. Mine must be defective because the only way my basket will securely fasten to the slide tube is with the basket turned 180 degrees and the swivel facing the right side, not how it's pictured here. You can see what will happen. The two locking wingnuts will be on top of each other. Not a good fit or function. I'll be chatting with my Sweetwater guy today. I was really hoping for a win but so far Atlas snare stands have let me down.

You will understand this...the notch on the square part that mounts inside the basket won't allow the basket to clamp down. The notch is facing the wrong direction for the basket to attach the way your picture shows.

Plus, now that my madness has subsided, I've noticed that the basket clamp mechanism reminds me of Pearl Rack clamps that fold over and tighten with a wingnut. I sold my Pearl rack several years ago and thought I was getting rid of that design. Now it's resurfaced in Ludwig hardware. AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :banghead::D
 

the_dude

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I've been using the Atlas Pro LAP23SS snare stand (the top-of-the-line with the Pillar Clutch) for eight years, and find it to be the best-engineered, most solidly-built and over all best-performing snare stand I've ever used (since 1967 I've used the original W&A Buck Rogers, the original Ludwig Atlas, and the Pearl S900W).

I've used my Atlas Pro with both a wood Dyna-Sonic (reissue) and a brass-on-brass Black Beauty with cast hoops (a heavy drum), and the stand holds either drum solidly without choking the drum or the bottom head. It's easy to adjust, the adjustments absolutely stay where I set them, and the stand stays put on the floor like it is nailed down. Every one of the other stands I listed "danced-around" when I played strong backbeats, requiring that I reposition the snare drum many times during a set. (The Pearl danced the most.) The Atlas Pro never moves at all under my sticks.

Maybe the stand you got is defective, but I wouldn't trade mine for any other snare stand made anywhere by anybody.

Just to make sure we're talking about the same model, this is the LAP23SS that I like so much:

View attachment 511439
I’ve had one of these for years and had no issues setting up or otherwise.
 

Pat A Flafla

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When I look at any piece of hardware, I see potential points of failure, and I see them on the Big R stand as well - not as many as on the Ludwig, but they're still there. Threads tapped straight into the metal that can strip, wing nuts and wing screws that can fail, drum key head bolts that can wear smooth or get lost. Based on a photo, that's what I see. You say you've used that stand for 40 years and none of those things have happened? Hmm, maybe I should base my assessment of how well hardware works and how long it lasts based on personal experience rather than a photo.
The metal used on all hardware seems to be much weaker than what was once used. Modern hardware has to be stone simple for me to purchase it.
 

Tama CW

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Yamaha. Set it forget it. Never a fail for me in 40 years.
Yup. I still use Yamaha 1980's 700/900 series stands as well as the similar Tama's. When stands of that era "fail"....it's because idiots over-tightened the bolts/wings or tossed their gear around when gigging.
A famous heavy metal drummer who's been touring for 30 yrs told me he prefers to use 80's Tama (and others)f that was built and treated well. He said the modern gear just hasn't held up for him.
 

Piggpenn

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Welp, call me dumba$$. I took this stand back to work and was going to give it one more attempt. I looked it over, realized my dilemma was real and for sake of argument tried one more time to make this work. I found that the square connector piece actually pivots or rotates within the angle adjustor. It make sense so that the snare can twist and swivel in just about any direction and angle. Last night that part was locked and wasn't moveable.

Today upon further inspection I was going to see if I could remove the allen nut and disassemble and reassemble but in the process of twisting and turning the basket, the notch part actually pivoted inside the bracket. So with that view, all I had to do was twist the square connector 180 degrees and that brought the notch to the correct position to engage the basket correctly.

Good grief. I hope this all makes sense. As it is, mine now looks like the ones pictured above. I might even get a chance to try it out tonight.

Bottom line, it was my ignorance for all of this. My apologies to everyone who wasted time posting. It was helpful however. I hate to lose!!

Back to your regularly scheduled programs.
 
Last edited:

Piggpenn

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I just snapped some pics of it assembled. The first picture is the offending notch. When I first got the stand the notch was facing the other direction. I hadn't figured out yet that it could swivel within its interlocking mechanism.

20210804_113853.jpg



20210804_114211.jpg


This is the basket upside down showing the clamping mechanism the square notch fits into. For the notch to work it has to face the lock over piece and that wasn't happening.

20210804_114202.jpg


Another view of the channel.


And after realizing my dumbness, here's the results.

20210804_113827.jpg



20210804_113813.jpg


I don't have it adjusted so it looks weird but it's together and will be put into service this evening...

I did have minor success with the hats stand. I have yet to unpack and try the single pedal I bought.

After some use and test driving of the new parts, I'll report back. At this point, I'm good to go.
 

LRod1707

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I've got a big Classic Maple kit and love Ludwig but dislike the hardware. With my last Ludwig kit, I tried a couple of hardware parts and I didn't like them at all. The only thing I like are the Atlas mounts!
I've chosen Gibraltar! Rack, stands, mounts etc..
They have absolutely everything I need, they are well built, functional and not overpriced.
I look at it this way, the drum companies are for drums and Gibraltar is 100% hardware. I'm sure some drum companies make good hardware but Ludwig ain't one of them. I'd rather just stick to Gibraltar which specializes in hardware.
 

Tommy D

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After trying a bunch of different snare stands, I have found the best ones are the ones with the basket sitting directly on top of a ball mount. The snare weight is directly over the base of the stand (zero offset), the snare can tilt in any direction you want with just one adjustment (never have to mess with the height adjustment to rotate the basket), and you can twist the snare around to align your strainer in the best possible location for use without having to rotate the base of the stand and run in to pedal issues. Again no messing with the height adjustment and no offset basket alignment shifting your snare drum forward/back/left/right.

The only stands that have this feature are the Tama Road Pro Omni-ball, Tama Star series and the Mapex Falcon SF-1000 stands.

I have Pearl 900 and 1000 snare stands, Gibraltar flat base ultra-adjust and the Tama Road Pro Omni Ball. The Tama is hands down the best snare stand I have ever owned.
 

Piggpenn

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After trying a bunch of different snare stands, I have found the best ones are the ones with the basket sitting directly on top of a ball mount. The snare weight is directly over the base of the stand (zero offset), the snare can tilt in any direction you want with just one adjustment (never have to mess with the height adjustment to rotate the basket), and you can twist the snare around to align your strainer in the best possible location for use without having to rotate the base of the stand and run in to pedal issues. Again no messing with the height adjustment and no offset basket alignment shifting your snare drum forward/back/left/right.

The only stands that have this feature are the Tama Road Pro Omni-ball, Tama Star series and the Mapex Falcon SF-1000 stands.

I have Pearl 900 and 1000 snare stands, Gibraltar flat base ultra-adjust and the Tama Road Pro Omni Ball. The Tama is hands down the best snare stand I have ever owned.
I'll add one more to that list.

Yamaha SS-950 Ball and Socket Snare Stand

I share this one between my Recording Customs and my MCAs. I was hoping for something similar with the Ludwig but it isn't going to happen. Oh, well, I have had to overcome other obstacles. I also had Star series which is a close resemblance to the basket on this Ludwig stand. I liked the TAMA as well but it was heavy...not pleasant for a weekend warrior.
 


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