Old Zildjians

Stonestreet

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When I got my drums, I also had the seller throw in a set of vintage zildjian cymbals. A 20" ride, made in canada, 16" crash that i can flex in my hands pretty easy, and 13" hi hats. My question is, how do you identify New Beats? I'm just curious as to what I got.

Thanks guys.


Marc
 

bermuda

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The original New Beats were simply a pair with a noticeably heavier bottom cymbal, as opposed to 'normal' hats which were paired pretty close together in pitch. In the absence of a NEW BEATS ink stamp, you'd just have to guess.

Bermuda
 

Stonestreet

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Oh, ok, yeah, they're pretty hard to tell which is heavier, so I guess they aren't New Beats. I really like them though. What would I call them then, just old zildjian hi hats?
 

K.O.

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Stonestreet said:
Oh, ok, yeah, they're pretty hard to tell which is heavier, so I guess they aren't New Beats. I really like them though. What would I call them then, just old zildjian hi hats?

Zildjian Hi-Hats were just "Hi-Hats" (I have an older pair that are rubber stamped "Hi-Hat") back in the day. I think they would pair them up at the factory but you could also do it yourself if you went to a drum store with enough stock to be worth looking through (my drum teacher put together his own pair at Franks Drum Shop in Chicago in the late 50's...and they are among the best pair of Hi-Hats I've ever heard). I think when Zildjian introduced the New Beats (which I think was sometime in the mid to late 60's) that was the first time they expanded beyond just selling Hi-Hats. The deal with the New Beats was the heavier bottom cymbal which was intended to offer a stronger sound or some such thing (I forget exactly what the specific advertised benefit was, although it was true and they do sound nice). Of course nowadays there are all sorts of different models and pairings from all the makers but all that has developed over the past 30-40 years.

I have a bunch of Zildjian Hi-Hat cymbals I've bought used, most of which are vintage ones that have no ink left on them to identify them (most never had any ink to begin with). I'll put the (usually only slightly) heavier one on the bottom and they almost always sound great (probably because I don't buy the pairs that sound like crap :) ) . It's fun to mix and match too...my best sounding pair is an old 15" Turkish K over a 70's 15" New Beat bottom.
 

Cannons

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Those cymbals sound like good ones, Marc, particularly the Canadian A ride. Those are some of the best pies Zildjian ever made.
 

Stonestreet

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Cannons said:
Those cymbals sound like good ones, Marc, particularly the Canadian A ride. Those are some of the best pies Zildjian ever made.

I haven't tried a lot of cymbals in the time I've been serious about playing drums, but I've heard a lot, and I'm pretty sure I'm in love with my cymbals. Especially being Canadian, there's a personal connection to my ride.


Hey KO, thanks for the very informative response. I've read few of your other posts on topics that interest me and I've learned quite a bit from you. Just wanted to say thanks for contributing so much.

Bermuda, thanks to you as well, it's not the first time I've been advised from you.

Cheers boys,


:occasion5:

Marc
 

marko52

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I've read few of your other posts on topics that interest me and I've learned quite a bit from you.
hey K.O., just think how much he'd have learned if he'd read lots of 'em!...marko :wink:
 

K.O.

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marko52 said:
I've read few of your other posts on topics that interest me and I've learned quite a bit from you.
hey K.O., just think how much he'd have learned if he'd read lots of 'em!...marko :wink:
I'm afraid he'd mostly just learn oddball opinions and crackpot theories....
 

drumaniac

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Stonestreet said:
Cannons said:
Those cymbals sound like good ones, Marc, particularly the Canadian A ride. Those are some of the best pies Zildjian ever made.

I haven't tried a lot of cymbals in the time I've been serious about playing drums, but I've heard a lot, and I'm pretty sure I'm in love with my cymbals. Especially being Canadian, there's a personal connection to my ride.


Hey KO, thanks for the very informative response. I've read few of your other posts on topics that interest me and I've learned quite a bit from you. Just wanted to say thanks for contributing so much.

Bermuda, thanks to you as well, it's not the first time I've been advised from you.

Cheers boys,


:occasion5:

Marc
Marc,

Those Canadian Zildjian's were made in N.B. which was the Zilco plant and is now Sabian. At the time they were pumping out some quality cymbals as the others have mentioned. Keep you eyes open for 16" & 18" made in Canada Zildjian crashes , they are sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Rick
 

Stonestreet

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Yeah, I'd like to stick some rivets into my ride but I don't want to defile it. So I'm on the lookout for an old sizzle from Zildjian. An 18" crash would be nice too.

Thanks Rick.
 

Elvis

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Stonestreet said:
Yeah, I'd like to stick some rivets into my ride but I don't want to defile it. So I'm on the lookout for an old sizzle from Zildjian. An 18" crash would be nice too.

Thanks Rick.

Rick,

This is probably up to conjecture, but I've noticed that rivets tend to sound better on heavier rides.
Thin or light rides tend to make rivets sound "clangy", or moreso anyway.

Check the used market for an old 22" A. Heavy or even an old 21" A. Rock Ride (which is lighter).
I think you'll be more pleased with the outcome.



Elvis
 

drumaniac

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Stonestreet said:
Yeah, I'd like to stick some rivets into my ride but I don't want to defile it. So I'm on the lookout for an old sizzle from Zildjian. An 18" crash would be nice too.

Thanks Rick.


If you want to part with some of your hard earned $$$ I will part with an 18" Canadian made Zildjian crash. I think I saw a 20" sizzle at the Steeles L&M.
 

Stonestreet

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Elvis said:
Stonestreet said:
Yeah, I'd like to stick some rivets into my ride but I don't want to defile it. So I'm on the lookout for an old sizzle from Zildjian. An 18" crash would be nice too.

Thanks Rick.
Rick,

This is probably up to conjecture, but I've noticed that rivets tend to sound better on heavier rides.
Thin or light rides tend to make rivets sound "clangy", or moreso anyway.

Check the used market for an old 22" A. Heavy or even an old 21" A. Rock Ride (which is lighter).
I think you'll be more pleased with the outcome.



Elvis
I should have thanked Rick at the beginning of my address to him. Thanks Elvis, for the record my name is Marc, just so you know, and I've heard that about sizzles. It makes sense to me so I think I'll take your advice and look for a heavier old Zildjian to have it done to. Or do it myself if I'm feeling accurate enough.


drumaniac said:
If you want to part with some of your hard earned $$$ I will part with an 18" Canadian made Zildjian crash. I think I saw a 20" sizzle at the Steeles L&M.
Hey Rick, I might be interested in that crash after Christmas. I might be picking up a new kit on Sunday so I need to be on top of my finances until the new year. I'll send you a PM about that crash, you're in the Toronto area I take it?


Marc
 

jrfrond

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The 20" is most likely a medium ride. I have a Canadian 20" also, and it's my #1 ride. The 16" sounds like a very thin "Thin" or a "Paperthin", and the 13" HH's are most likely New Beats. If they are lathed on both sides and the pitch of the two cymbals is fairly far apart, then you have New Beats.
 

Stonestreet

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Thanks for the info JR, I can't say enough how much I love the sound of that cymbal set, especially the ride.

How do you guys weigh them, by the way?
 

Elvis

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Marc and Rick,

Sorry for mixing up your names, but hey, at least I was close!
These days, everyone to me is; Bub, Mac, Buddy or HEY YOU!
I'm gettin' really bad with the name thing.

As for weighing cymbals, I used to use a 25 lb. baby scale at my Mom's house, but last time I did it, I used the computerized scale in the little "postal center" at the P.O.
Worked great!

Lastly, no problem on the cymbal advice. Good luck with that....er...uh, Stonestreet. :D ;)



Elvis
 

jonesy

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This is an interesting thread. I don't know much about vintage cymbals I just know what I like and have always bought old cymbals cos I like the sound and look and they're cheaper! I recently noticed that my favourite 18" crash is a Canadian and wondered about it (I had thought all Zildjians were made in USA). What sort of age would it be? It's very dull looking (just how I like them) and has no ink stamps on it.
It's interesting what's been said about the hi hats . Mine are very closely matched (heavy) in weight ( I believe they're '70s, the only ink stamps on them are hollow 'Zildjian' on the underside) and I thought they might be two bottoms put together (I had thought all Zildjian hi hats from the '60s onwards had heavier bottoms). They sound great though.
I have also learned a lot from KO and this forum in general over the few weeks since I joined, thanks. :notworthy:

Cheers, Nathan.
 

Elvis

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Hollow log Zildjian is late 1970's - early 1980's vintage.
I had a hollow logo 21" A. Rock Ride. Nice cymbal, just couldn't crash it.

Canadian Zildjian goes back to the early 60's, I believe (anyone out there know for sure, please feel free to correct me).
Many hearld the work done by our brothers to the north as some of the nicer examples of the A & K lines.
Today, that plant is the home of Sabian.



Elvis
 

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