OT sort of: Getting Old and getting more cranky

rondrums51

rondrums51
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,702
Reaction score
894
Location
Southwest Florida
Dan, you're old enough to remember when you got gigs because you could actually play. You didn't have to promote yourself. Word got out in the music community, and the phone rang constantly.

That's all changed today. The drummers who work most nowadays are politicians, schmoozers, and self-promoters. They post Facebook pics of themselves on every gig they play, like they're some kind of big stars. It's bullshit.
And unfortunately, they're invariably not the best players.

Social media has done a lot to lower the bar. It's great for half-assed amateurs.

Remember when you had to have a union card, read music, and play any style? That's how you got work. Those days are gone.
 

ThomFloor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Messages
450
Reaction score
155
That's all changed today. The drummers who work most nowadays are politicians, schmoozers, and self-promoters. They post Facebook pics of themselves on every gig they play, like they're some kind of big stars. It's bullshit.
And unfortunately, they're invariably not the best players.

Social media has done a lot to lower the bar. It's great for half-assed amateurs.

Remember when you had to have a union card, read music, and play any style? That's how you got work. Those days are gone.
What evidence do you have that 'working drummers today' are 'half-assed' or 'invariably not the best players'? In fact working drummers today have 10 times the competition, by virtue of the fact there is less work period.

Ya folks .....'those days' are gone. Guess what, its 50 years later and things change.
Just like when people on this thread were happily playing in 1972, it was different than the way 'things were in 1922'. I mean c'mon. The times change.
You don't think the generation before all the baby boomers complaining here, also complained about you?? You had a landline to get work, they had no phone.
Word gets out in a community by Facebook. Thats the landline phone of 1970.
Why criticize a young drummer for doing what it takes to get work today? To say they are all half-assed drummers because times and media are different is completely unfair nonsense.

Disclaimer: am not on Facebook and born on the edge of the baby boom.
 

Topsy Turvy

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
500
Reaction score
80
Location
United States
What evidence do you have that 'working drummers today' are 'half-assed' or 'invariably not the best players'? In fact working drummers today have 10 times the competition, by virtue of the fact there is less work period.

Ya folks .....'those days' are gone. Guess what, its 50 years later and things change.
Just like when people on this thread were happily playing in 1972, it was different than the way 'things were in 1922'. I mean c'mon. The times change.
You don't think the generation before all the baby boomers complaining here, also complained about you?? You had a landline to get work, they had no phone.
Word gets out in a community by Facebook. Thats the landline phone of 1970.
Why criticize a young drummer for doing what it takes to get work today? To say they are all half-assed drummers because times and media are different is completely unfair nonsense.

Disclaimer: am not on Facebook and born on the edge of the baby boom.

Definitely agree with this guy.

Buddy Rich was a publicity hound. And more power to him for doing what it took to get the gigs. If he were an up and coming drummer today, I'm certain he would be all over social media. He could also play, which is what this person's argument will be. Here's the thing, since we live in a capitalist society, these drummer's ability or inability to get the job done will take care of the situation in short order. Those who can will stick around, and those who can't will be gone. Same as it ever was.
 

moodman

Lone Wolf
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
3,972
Reaction score
375
Location
Quityerbitchin, USA
Actually and honestly, I see that drummers today are technically better than ever and doing whatever it takes to get to play, just like we did. I was lucky to get into it at a time when gigs were plentiful and even a bush league'r like me could hone their skills and make a paycheck for it every week. I can tell you that in those days, yes, there were some who resented rockers, but more often, when you met an older musician, they'd give you some tip or advice. In a world without a lot books on technique and videos to learn from, it was appreciated.
My crank rant is only blow back to those who dis me out of hand, there have always been aholes and hacks gigging.
Today's drummers have more access to info and better equipment to hone their skills, if they got the stage time we did, they'd consider it a luxury.
In the 'those that matter don't mind and those that mind don't matter' sense, every player stands on their skills and talent, and age doesn't matter. Drum and let drum.
 
Last edited:

jptrickster

DFO Master
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
8,885
Reaction score
1,657
Location
Fairfield County
The biggest influence with the onslaught of internet videos as a player , you can really get a sense of the competition ,you can pretty well gauge just how good you thought you were or on the other hand just how badly you suck! As kids in the 60’s and 70’s we had none of this pressure or awareness , you actually believed Clive Davis might show up at one of your gigs,everyone was a legend in their own backyard lol
 

BennyK

DFO Master
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
14,120
Reaction score
1,093
Playing drums was my ticket to see the world in pursuit of romance and adventure . I got a lethal dose of both and survived . Those days have passed , but I know it happened because I was there .

I'm pretty sure it was me .
 
Last edited:

rhythmace

Rhythmace
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
11,019
Reaction score
348
Location
Richmond, Texas
W.C. Fields. "When I was a little kid shoveling elephant poop for the circus, I always said that one day when I am successful I will come back and help a kid like me. Now that I am older and rich, I and think about a kid like that and I think "FxxK Him!"
 

xsabers

World's Second Most Okayest Drummer
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
10,693
Reaction score
1,652
There is also the reality that the game has changed. Recorded music often happens with various players never having met in person, as digital files are passed back and forth. Popular music largely jettisoned the dynamic of musicians playing together and off one another with programmed drums in the 80s, and more recently, quantized, copy and pasted, and sample replacement drums. Watch the Rick Beato video about this for real world examples. Perfection and consistency have replaced feel and emotion. So in this world, young drummers adapt and learn to play in isolation as for many of them, this is their performance outlet. I don't blame them as they are a product of the times.
 

Frank Godiva

Very well Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2017
Messages
508
Reaction score
212
Location
SF Bay Area
W.C. Fields. "When I was a little kid shoveling elephant poop for the circus, I always said that one day when I am successful I will come back and help a kid like me. Now that I am older and rich, I and think about a kid like that and I think "FxxK Him!"
Not to get too OT... WC was offered whiskey or water. Whiskey he replied cause fish f**k in water.
 

Ickybaby

Very well Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
1,263
Reaction score
265
Location
Normal, IL
I'd rather see some kids over-playing than post after post of guys showing off their "Bonham" and "Ringo" kits they spent more time polishing than playing.

Music isn't dying, it's evolving. It's different than it was when you were a kid. It's OK. It's the natural order.
 

rondrums51

rondrums51
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,702
Reaction score
894
Location
Southwest Florida
What evidence do you have that 'working drummers today' are 'half-assed' or 'invariably not the best players'? In fact working drummers today have 10 times the competition, by virtue of the fact there is less work period.

Ya folks .....'those days' are gone. Guess what, its 50 years later and things change.
Just like when people on this thread were happily playing in 1972, it was different than the way 'things were in 1922'. I mean c'mon. The times change.
You don't think the generation before all the baby boomers complaining here, also complained about you?? You had a landline to get work, they had no phone.
Word gets out in a community by Facebook. Thats the landline phone of 1970.
Why criticize a young drummer for doing what it takes to get work today? To say they are all half-assed drummers because times and media are different is completely unfair nonsense.

Disclaimer: am not on Facebook and born on the edge of the baby boom.
I simply meant that a drummer who does all the politics and self-promotion is more likely to work than a drummer who doesn't. And a lot of the self-promoters are not the best players. I shouldn't have said "invariably." Bad choice of words.

The "old days" were far from perfect. But you proved yourself on the bandstand, not on social media.
 

rondrums51

rondrums51
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
9,702
Reaction score
894
Location
Southwest Florida
Music isn't dying, it's evolving. It's different than it was when you were a kid. It's OK. It's the natural order.
Music changes over the decades, but it doesn't necessarily evolve. Compare the sterile, computerized pop music of today with the music of Duke Ellington and Count Basie, the popular music of the 1930's and 1940's. It had brilliant melody and harmony, and genius soloists. Nowadays, all you need is big boobs and a big stage show, and you're making millions.

The 30's and 40's were way before my time, and i have no interest in going back and reviving the past. I'm a modern jazz player. But I don't see evolution in popular music. I see de-evolution.
 

EvEnStEvEn

~Lounge Lizard~
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
17,354
Reaction score
1,641
Location
Oklur Homer
At 65, I find myself getting aggravated at drummers who always seem to me having the ‘Look at me’ attitude on social media.
As I've gotten older (62 last weekend) I've noticed a somewhat lower tolerance for life's sillier things but seeing drummer clips on Facebook certainly isn't one of them.
 

cozy4ever

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
101
Reaction score
46
Location
USA
I'm a modern jazz player. But I don't see evolution in popular music. I see de-evolution.
I agree completely & I say this as a hard rocker. Also I am neither a young kid nor a retired boomer, I was born in the middle of 1979 and sort of have a foot in both worlds.

Over the years I have seen musicianship (talking about the major ones who "break through" here, not the Youtube prodigies or student players) decline a lot. If anything I blame my fellow Generation X members for abandoning real musicianship in favor of grunge, gangsta rap, punk and indie-- not to mention the Napster factor and everything that came in its wake. All of a sudden jazz, metal and prog were seen as corny and to be made fun of, and deliberately poor music was the coolest thing ever...and we simply never recovered from that mistake to this day. At the same disastrous time, we went from supporting real musicians to supporting rich tech geeks hawking crappy sound files on the internet instead. Hooray for technology, our savior. /s

re: the union/gig argument above: I also know that it was possible pre-1990s for a full time pro musician to eke out at the very least a working class living at playing alone and even own a house, depending on the location of course. Now that is all a cynical joke and if you aren't driving yourself absolutely sheeethouse hustling "diversified streams of income" cranking out jingles with a computer and/or teaching lessons to fifty zillion neighborhood kids, then you will end up literally homeless w/o a "day job" in some office. If that's the supposed "evolution" of the "changing times", then fire up that time machine and set the controls to 1983 please. Just make sure we don't run out of plutonium and get stuck in the 90s again, lol...once was enough with that sheeet!
 
Last edited:

ThomFloor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Messages
450
Reaction score
155
I simply meant that a drummer who does all the politics and self-promotion is more likely to work than a drummer who doesn't. And a lot of the self-promoters are not the best players. I shouldn't have said "invariably." Bad choice of words.

The "old days" were far from perfect. But you proved yourself on the bandstand, not on social media.
Not sure what you mean.
Old days - a good drummer stayed home, and somebody knocked on his door out of nowhere and he got the gig? Of course not, he went to a club, hung out awhile, sat in, got known. That made him 'available'. His actually playing with people was 'self-promotion'. That same process now is all social media. Somebody saw his vid of him playing. I'm not saying its any better, its just the *medium has been replaced.

And the 'politics'? There are all kinds of politics in any choice, with/without social media. Don't you think race/ethnic/financial background decided who got a drumming gig in certain bands in certain circles in the 1940's or 50's? Surely as a jazzer you know of Dave Brubeck's trials and tribulations with band members on this front? His band couldn't play certain places. Many other band leaders avoided that hassle simply for political reasons.

I get your point about the bandstand, its just that one has to do all that other stuff on social media to get on the bandstand in the first place.
 
Last edited:

fishaa

Very well Known Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
707
Reaction score
61
Social media is the worst. Drop it.
 


Top