OT: We need an OT forum, please

MonkeyGrass

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Chris you are looking *now*. 2-3 days ago, there were quite literally 7-8 OT topics on the first page. It's off-putting to people who come here to discuss drums (and could care less about grilling steaks or Tom Cruise). OT stuff that somehow related to music is OK in my book, but when stupid stuff like this is taking up front page space of the General forum, it's a bit much. I am looking at facts, and I'm quite sure I matter naught in any regard here (that was made obvious by your reply, thanks) but I'm telling you honestly, that I have a limited amount of time to surf this forum each week. I hit the high points, respond to any PM's, and check the first page of General and Vintage Venue. And when real threads, pertaining to drums and music, are not showing on the front page because of this, it prevents me (and others) from being able to glance thru the top threads, see if I can respond/contribute/help a fellow member in relation to their DRUMMING, and move on about my day. It rather defeats the point of coming here at all. Like someone else mentioned, yeah the old guys sitting on the front porch of the hardware store may be part of the local "scene" - but nobody actually goes to there just to small-talk with them. And when those guys are clogging up the front entrance to the store, it might be time for the proprietor to ask them to kindly find another place to squat and shoot the breeze. Just sayin'.

I can see you guys aren't going to change your stance on this, regardless of the fact that when managed properly it can work and clean up the forum. A blanket rule of NO religion and NO politics in a properly moderated OT forum is generally the rule of the land in cyberspace. Threads that don't adhere to that standard are immediately removed with no discussion whatsoever. People get the point, eventually. If you can't see that, nothing I type is going to change anyone's mind. You guys run the show, and will do so as you see fit. Apparently, a thoughtful post from someone who has dealt with this exact problem on a much larger forum, qualifies as "bitching just to bitch." :unsure: You aren't the only group of guys to ever moderate a board. You might even learn something from your members if you gave 'em a chance. But I can see you've got it all covered. Obviously. Which is why a thread about the number of rampant OT threads has been on the front page all week. Just silly bitching, cuz we've got nothing better to do, right?
 

PureRockFury

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Chris you are looking *now*. 2-3 days ago, there were quite literally 7-8 OT topics on the first page. It's off-putting to people who come here to discuss drums (and could care less about grilling steaks or Tom Cruise). OT stuff that somehow related to music is OK in my book, but when stupid stuff like this is taking up front page space of the General forum, it's a bit much. I am looking at facts, and I'm quite sure I matter naught in any regard here (that was made obvious by your reply, thanks) but I'm telling you honestly, that I have a limited amount of time to surf this forum each week. I hit the high points, respond to any PM's, and check the first page of General and Vintage Venue. And when real threads, pertaining to drums and music, are not showing on the front page because of this, it prevents me (and others) from being able to glance thru the top threads, see if I can respond/contribute/help a fellow member in relation to their DRUMMING, and move on about my day. It rather defeats the point of coming here at all. Like someone else mentioned, yeah the old guys sitting on the front porch of the hardware store may be part of the local "scene" - but nobody actually goes to there just to small-talk with them. And when those guys are clogging up the front entrance to the store, it might be time for the proprietor to ask them to kindly find another place to squat and shoot the breeze. Just sayin'.

I can see you guys aren't going to change your stance on this, regardless of the fact that when managed properly it can work and clean up the forum. A blanket rule of NO religion and NO politics in a properly moderated OT forum is generally the rule of the land in cyberspace. Threads that don't adhere to that standard are immediately removed with no discussion whatsoever. People get the point, eventually. If you can't see that, nothing I type is going to change anyone's mind. You guys run the show, and will do so as you see fit. Apparently, a thoughtful post from someone who has dealt with this exact problem on a much larger forum, qualifies as "bitching just to bitch." :unsure: You aren't the only group of guys to ever moderate a board. You might even learn something from your members if you gave 'em a chance. But I can see you've got it all covered. Obviously. Which is why a thread about the number of rampant OT threads has been on the front page all week. Just silly bitching, cuz we've got nothing better to do, right?
Well said!
 

PureRockFury

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50% of the OT topics on the first page of the General section at this moment are bitching about OT posts! I'm not starting up another OT section. It's a disaster waiting to happen and I don't want to be the one searching that area to see who's smokin' in the boys room. Seriously, it's a pain in the ass.
Keep in mind that a lot of us have been around for a while, know each other and seek advice, counsel and humor from one another. That's part of the community nature of this site. At least people are kind enough to mark their off topic posts with an OT alerting the rest of us.
Skip' em if you don't want to read them.
I think we've beaten this horse to death.

Chris
You refuse to see it from the "OT forum would be good" crowd. It isn't about clicking on them or reading them. I think anyone with a brain can figure that out, you are basically calling some members children with that statement.

For those of us that want an OT forum, its about OT posts taking up space on the 1st page of a DRUM forum. I barely come here because of that crap flooding a DRUM forum.

What is the difference of having these OT posts in a General Chit-Chat area compared to here in the General area of a DRUM forum? Besides them taking up valuable space for topics that are actually about drums, there is no difference whatsoever.

I wish I could see back end stats. Guaranteed you are seeing less traffic these days.
 

Eck

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I wish I could see back end stats. Guaranteed you are seeing less traffic these days.

That's a pretty bold statement and even if it were true, why would we care? The less we need to police and moderate the more time everyone has for talking drums.

One thing anyone has failed to argue against is the liability involved. I'm not going to have my sheeet confiscated in some police investigation because two idiots murdered each other after a spat in a thread about Tom Cruise. Nor will any of us like to be involved legally or held liable in a situation where that might occur. Ok, so it may not be murder, but there are many crimes that have been committed in the name of internet superiority. I would prefer to not let that happen here.
 

Latindrummer

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I cant understand how is that we drummers cant coexist peacefully in an OT forum. I frequently visited 2 forums, all of them with an OT or equivalent Forum with apparently no problems:


Porsche Cars Forum They have an OT Forum

Dallas Mavericks Basketball They have what they call General Discussion Forum with the following instruction "For when you don't wanna talk about basketball"
 

Bugford

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Unbelievable. After all that has been said, there are still people crying about it? Is it that hard to understand that the guy who OWNS the forum (Chris), doesn't want an Off Topic section? Are you guys frickin' dense?! We tried it long before you got here, it didn't work, all hell broke loose, and it took up too much time to moderate. You know, moderate? As in, there are actually people who take time out of their day to WORK AT THIS FORUM? If you don't like it, start your own forum! And then let the rest of us know where it is, so we can all go over and cry and whine about various things we don't like about it. Better yet, let us know where you live, so we can go and put our feet up on the furniture and tell you what you can do to improve the place! The nerve of some of you guys is incredible. You've had your say, the owner has explained why it isn't going to happen, and you're STILL complaining?! Unbelievable.
 

Bugford

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I think we should get free beer.
Okay, I have to admit that would be a huge improvement. And if Chris says no, we'll just keep repeating it over and over again until we get our way.
 

hepkat

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Bitching for the sake of bitching? Hmmm... sorry, you see it that way. I see constructive criticisms from forumites who care about the user experience of the forum. Some valid and illuminating points on both sides of the issue. If the first page contains fewer OT posts, then perhaps the debate in this thread was well worth it. When folks think twice about whether a topic is suitable for a drum forum, that's a good thing. Acknowledge, learn, move on.
 

Luddite

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Or....here's an idea.
We have a couple of forum brothers (and let's remember, these brethren are contributors who are in general a very positive presence here) who are vehement in their desire for an OT forum, and can't see why anyone disagrees with them. Fair enough.
Give them their OT forum. Is there a way to do this that is fair to Chris, Eck and the admins? Try this on for size:
Let them not only be responsible for moderating it, but also legally liable for any problems that might arise from from it. If things heat up over religion, politics, Tom Cruise or gastrointestinal distress, and criminal acts are committed related to the off topic forum, then the heat will be squarely on them and not on Eck, Chris or any of the other administrators. Let them also be willing to take on any costs involved in implementing and maintaining the OT forum. I feel that if they truly want this bad enough, then they would be willing to take this responsibility (and legal liability) on. Chris obviously isn't, which is his right as forum owner. And, ultimately, if he does not, under ANY circumstance, want an OT forum, then THAT is as it should be.
Not trying to stir things up, cause any trouble or hard feelings here, just an idea. It seems like the second fairest solution to me, first fairest being that the owner and maintainer of the forum doesn't want to deal with it and shouldn't have to if he doesn't want to.
 

PureRockFury

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I wish I could see back end stats. Guaranteed you are seeing less traffic these days.

That's a pretty bold statement and even if it were true, why would we care? The less we need to police and moderate the more time everyone has for talking drums.

One thing anyone has failed to argue against is the liability involved. I'm not going to have my s**t confiscated in some police investigation because two idiots murdered each other after a spat in a thread about Tom Cruise. Nor will any of us like to be involved legally or held liable in a situation where that might occur. Ok, so it may not be murder, but there are many crimes that have been committed in the name of internet superiority. I would prefer to not let that happen here.
Talk about overreaction. Also, with the laws the way they are, you would have to give in to an investigation, but you aren't held liable. I was part of a forum were a member was causing all kinds of trouble for people. Hacking, threats, stalking, etc... The forum admin had to give up his details, post history and then they were done with it. Once its handed over to the authorities, they don't give a heck who you are or what your forum is, or even the fact that you run a forum.

Please...this is a drummers forum. If you are worried about these crazy violent people you seem to speak of, then you have the wrong crowd here. Again, you speak so highly of the people here on how long they've been around, how mature they are, then I don't see why you are so afraid to have an OT forum.
 

FloydZKing

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All this gnashing of teeth over having to skip over topics you don't want to read, or horror of horrors, having to click through to page 2? That's just sad. If you hate OT posts so much, don't read them.

Do your own dang organizing if you're that compulsive about it! Sorry to be harsh, but it's such an absurdly unimportant thing to demand of our host and mods. Tiny gain for you vs. giant pain in the neck for them. Hmmm... DUH!
 

PureRockFury

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All this gnashing of teeth over having to skip over topics you don't want to read, or horror of horrors, having to click through to page 2? That's just sad. If you hate OT posts so much, don't read them.

Do your own dang organizing if you're that compulsive about it! Sorry to be harsh, but it's such an absurdly unimportant thing to demand of our host and mods. Tiny gain for you vs. giant pain in the neck for them. Hmmm... DUH!
Are you serious? No one has really said anything about reading the OT post. But they are clearly in the way of the important topics...of...what are we here for again?..OH YEAH DRUMS!!!
 

FloydZKing

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I guess that's what I don't get pure. How are they in the way? How hard is it to deal with things as they are? One post doesn't detract from another post by existing in the same list, nor is it any better off by being segregated from it. It's just not important, like, at all IMO.
 

MonkeyGrass

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I'm not vehement about anything related to this place. It's a fun way to pass a few minutes a day on an internet forum, when I'm not on the road.

I've tried to offer some constructive OPTIONS on ways to deal with what a sizeable percentage of this community perceives as an issue that impacts the time we spend here on DFO. And instead of having a conversation on the topic at hand, it's dismissed as "mindless bitching". That's insulting and condescending - period. You guys really should think about adding a mod or two - this site has grown exponentially in the last couple years and it's not just the servers and software that needs to be upgraded and kept up to date. If modding this board is such a chore that you feel the need to speak to members here that way, then perhaps you should find some folks to help you out and lighten the load. Instead, you choose to take your frustration out on members trying to constructively help the forum grow in a sensible fashion. You should have just said "THERE WILL BE NO OT SECTION" after the first or second post and locked/deleted the thread if that's how you really feel about it. Seriously. If there was never going to be a chance that this would happen, then why is this thread even going? End it, lock it and be done with it. Pretty simple, really. You let it go on and on like this and that's how people get riled up about stuff.

And if you truly feel that running off members is cool because it makes your job easier, you may very well get your wish. I thought the idea was to welcome all kinds of people here, not dismiss them and run them out because they have an idea you don't like.
 

blujax01

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Fellas, Fellas ...

When I am an invited guest at a party, or more to the point, when I invite myself to a party, I do tend to pay attention to the fact that I am a guest in someone else's house. I may offer a suggestion as to what song might be put on the jukebox, but if the host wants to listen to something else, I remember that it is his house and it would be rude to insist he play the tune I want.

We are all guests here, right?
 
C

cpj83

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I'm not vehement about anything related to this place. It's a fun way to pass a few minutes a day on an internet forum, when I'm not on the road.

I've tried to offer some constructive OPTIONS on ways to deal with what a sizeable percentage of this community perceives as an issue that impacts the time we spend here on DFO. And instead of having a conversation on the topic at hand, it's dismissed as "mindless bitching". That's insulting and condescending - period. You guys really should think about adding a mod or two - this site has grown exponentially in the last couple years and it's not just the servers and software that needs to be upgraded and kept up to date. If modding this board is such a chore that you feel the need to speak to members here that way, then perhaps you should find some folks to help you out and lighten the load. Instead, you choose to take your frustration out on members trying to constructively help the forum grow in a sensible fashion. You should have just said "THERE WILL BE NO OT SECTION" after the first or second post and locked/deleted the thread if that's how you really feel about it. Seriously. If there was never going to be a chance that this would happen, then why is this thread even going? End it, lock it and be done with it. Pretty simple, really. You let it go on and on like this and that's how people get riled up about stuff.

And if you truly feel that running off members is cool because it makes your job easier, you may very well get your wish. I thought the idea was to welcome all kinds of people here, not dismiss them and run them out because they have an idea you don't like.
I read each and every post in this thread and took in all points of view. The point is this...we have beat this topic into the ground over the last 5 years. OT sections have been attempted on 2 occasions and turned into bloody melees. Members were upset about it and it turned into a full time job simply moderating the section. It was as though members didn't feel the rules applied because it was "OT". So here we are again, people upset because there are OT posts in the General section. It is now and always has been part of this sites culture. This is a fairly tight bunch. We know each other, we buy and sell from each other, we hang together. It is both unusual and unique, but it is the DFO culture.
It IS aggravating to have to explain this a dozen times. And, it is especially aggravating to receive PM's and see posts complaining about OT posts when there are so few. When I responded there were 2 OT posts on the first page of the General section. Is that too many? Gimme a break. The answer is not more mods, the answer is to avoid situations where excessive moderation becomes a necessity. I'm passionate about this topic because I don't want to have to deal with it over and over again. I'm willing to explain my point of view just as I'm willing to listen to other points of view. This site has always involved give and take, but on this issue I'm solid. Like I DID say in my previous post, I will not add an OT section. That's my call and I believe the majority of the posting membership agrees with that.

Chris
 

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