Over-thinking rudiments

troutstudio

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Doesn’t matter what you practice, it should have a groove and relate to a feel. Vinnie says he practices; then goes to the gig and forgets about it. That’s me too. I practice all my rudiments to songs.
 

CSR

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All rudiments essentially are are combinations of singles and doubles that have been given names. The RLRRLL pattern that was mentioned above has the name “paradiddlediddle.” The rudiments are, by definition, foundations to rhythmic patterns. Master those, and you’re well on your way to mixing them up as combinations for solos or grooves. Watch a Buddy Rich or Steve Smith solo and what you will see are a pattern of rudiments mixed together at lightning speed.


 
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Rich K.

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Singles and doubles, yes.
Practicing is always good; the rudiments are part of the histroy of the drums and worthwhile.
However...
they were not invented to be a preparation for drumset playing.
There are other stickings you can get a lot of mileage out of that are not part of the (marching) snare drum rudiments.
Stanton moore has some yt videos on patterns such as
RRLRRLRL
or RLRRLRRL



or RLLRLLRL
or ...

One pattern I use a lot is just RLRRLL. Many way to orchestrate this around the kit.
If this seems interesting, Gary Chaffee's "patterns" books go in a similar direction.

As far as speed is concerned, look at the RLRRLL pattern, it has singles and doubles. The doubles could be played fast by either bouncing the second one, or using a push/pull finger motion. Then accent the singles. Add to this the inversion LRLLRR. To me this is a major building block (Hidden in there is the swing ride beat, btw).
You could also start with RLRRL and LRLLR, or focus on them later to introduce some odd-number patterns, then move on to pattern using 7, 8, 9 beats.
RLRRLL is a paradiddle diddle rudiment
 

Drumstickdude

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I've just been wondering about overthinking on this - the example shown might give you a clue, Now I'm fine playing this example ON ITS OWN, FOLLOWING THE WRITTEN MUSIC, the example on the left is the more troublesome one ,but where the REAL goal is, surely?, must be that I should be able to play any mixture of notes ( triplets 16s 8th notes, like here) AND also place the accents anywhere without thinking too much, the goal of this exercise is to play quarter note triplets over any rhythm starting the quarter note triplets anywhere along the rhythm, AND importantly starting each one with a paradiddle. Apologies if this is confusing I'm trying to explain as best I can.
 

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Rock Salad

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I try to overthink them as much as possible on the pad too.
rrlrrlrl really ought to be considered a rudiment too (imho), what people do with it is simply amazing!
 

JDA

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r l l r r l r l l r

it's sticking when you on the set
6+4+5+7+4+3+
strung together.

the ruffs, rolls - the 2 (flam) the 3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11 etc
rudiments
are with you
in your front pocket all the time
rolls are skeletal. (there's underlying 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/ etc)

me, Vinnie, Steve Smith
all had Gary Chaffee
(Mr. Stickings)

Ha! but true

You mix Gary Chaffee, Jon Christensen, Tony Williams
with
San Francisco and Woodstock
and you have
Boomers

that sticking (6+4) at the top is the smooth jazz 1/2 time funk jazz take five
lol true again +/-
 
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Squirrel Man

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My left hand sucks.

Nothing pretty much anyone here ever went through but I've been working more on the practice pad leading with the left on a number of rudiments and it's starting to pay off.

Like the shuffles I've been working on, all the mechanics are there but it sounds like crap. Left hand, ghost notes. I've been excited just to work rudiments on the pad lately and I've just been pinging around on the kit for kicks.
 

Drm1979

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I started off my training in middle school concert band and then marching band all 4 years of high school. I can say that during that time I had learned all the rudiments and could play most of them more than well enough for what I was doing in marching band. I didn't start playing drum set until the second half of my junior year in high school and on. Based on the type of music I was playing it didn't require all the rudiments that I had learned up to that point. Once my concert and marching band days were behind me i found myself not using much more than rolls, doubles and singles for most of what I was doing. Oh and flams. I guess my point in saying all this is that as you play and grow in your style of music you practice what is most needed for what you want to do. I'm not saying that learning the rudiments is not imporatant but that you learn what's needed more for what you're playing and the less important rudiments are put aside until you feel you need it. I hope this makes sense the way I described it.
 

Rock Salad

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I am overthinking rudiments today. Doing one side of a rudiment pattern as ostinato and switching limbs with it and filling out beats with the other three.
 

Rock Salad

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Are we all done over thinking rudiments?!
I've been working my single stroke roll, not for speed though. Doing a few things with it. 1/16ths between R and K tightening up, and regular RLRL 1/8ths in different feels of train beat, Nola beats. I know usually Nola beat is rrlrrlrl (should be a rudiment) but my favorite guy here in town plays his rlrl.
 

cworrick

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:blink:
Are we overthinking the essential 13 rudiments, the standard 26, the PAS 40 rudiments, or the drum corps 128+ hybrid rudiments.:scratch:


just curious.



:p
 

BennyK

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I use a snare paradiddle to signal the end of the of the guitar solo on Badge . Tip of the hat to Mr Baker who incorporated rudiments extensively .
 
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Deafmoon

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I remember talking to Wallace Roney (R.I.P) a few years back jokingly saying, "I think Tony used to warm-up with roll rudiments before some tunes." And Wallace corrected me saying, "Tony used various rudiments to express what he had to say to open the tune striving to make them sound like one continuous roll." That was a lightbulb over my head when he told me that. So that's kinda what I do with the rudiments. I look at ways to integrate them effortlessly from one to another into one. It's not Dawson's Ritual, that's all the rudiments. I just do singles, doubles and flams. Buddy Rich was the master at moving between singles and doubles effortlessly. Couple that with his ability on his left hand and accent in between with his right hand all over the kit & Buddy sounded super-human (I think he was anyway). The biggest problem I have with the Rudiments as written though, is they do not really foster true independence. So, yeah work on all the rudiments til you have mastered them sounding good, but recognize that you've got to work on independence stuff to master speaking your mind on the drums, otherwise you become a very linear cat.
 

Tornado

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I look at ways to integrate them effortlessly from one to another into one.
Pratt, Wilcoxon, Markovich. Plenty of others out there.

Rudimental snare drum solos. No need to overthink what's already been written for this purpose.
 

Squirrel Man

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Just for the record I don't overthink rudiments. At all, I spend probably three times more time on the practice pad than the kit, kit time is usually half fun time and half stuff I'm working on time.

Getting my stupid left hand in shape is practice pad time and it's paying off, and I have a bit of a road to hoe and that's all good.

And other things, I'm on the doorstep maybe of Moeller.
 

Rock Salad

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I spent years, when I was younger, running scales and arpeggios on the electric bass and guitar. Years. Got them so fast and so clean, and it takes a fair amount of maintenance to keep up beyond certain tempos.
Once the thing was "in my hands" I should have paused and put some thought into it. Whether that thought be learning past masters' use, or feeling out my own discovery.
Not going to do that again. I don't think about it with sticks in my hands, but thinking on these things is good.
 


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