Paiste Dark Ride Comparison

multijd

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What is the closest modern cymbal to the Paiste Dark Ride? I know there was a Sound Creation and also 602. What are the different characteristics of each? Can we get these sounds today?
Thanks
JB
 

michiganice91

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What is the closest modern cymbal to the Paiste Dark Ride? I know there was a Sound Creation and also 602. What are the different characteristics of each? Can we get these sounds today?
Thanks
JB
602 dark ride became the sound creation dark ride. There is absolutely nothing in the current paiste line up or any other company's current production that sounds like those 2 cymbals. I won't even attempt to make a comparison to a masters.
 

RIDDIM

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The closest thing I've head is the 22" ME ride.

I was thinking of buying some at one time. So, I A/B'd one in a drum shop with my 22" SC Dark and my 602 20" ride. It's right in the middle of both, sound wise, and too close either to justify buying, for my tastes. So it didn't come home with me.

If you don't have an SC, however, nor a similarly sized 602, it might be just the ticket for you.
 

multijd

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The closest thing I've head is the 22" ME ride.

I was thinking of buying some at one time. So, I A/B'd one in a drum shop with my 22" SC Dark and my 602 20" ride. It's right in the middle of both, sound wise, and too close either to justify buying, for my tastes. So it didn't come home with me.

If you don't have an SC, however, nor a similarly sized 602, it might be just the ticket for you.
Great advice. ME is modern essentials I assume? They dont have an actual dark ride anymore?!
 

multijd

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602 dark ride became the sound creation dark ride. There is absolutely nothing in the current paiste line up or any other company's current production that sounds like those 2 cymbals. I won't even attempt to make a comparison to a masters.
But the masters looks like it might be the closest? Or maybe the dark energy?
 

bongomania

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Dark Energy has some unlathed areas, while the other “dark” Paistes don’t (unless I’m forgetting one).
 

zenstat

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There is an overview of Paiste Dark Rides on Cymbal Wiki


as well as links to dive deeper. As an overview I'd say that the 602 Dark Rides and Sound Creation Dark Rides were fairly similar. The closest replacement was the Dark Energy during the B20 hiatus. Once upon a time on Cymbalholic there was an A/B comparison of a Sound Creation Dark Ride and a Dark Energy showing they were fairly similar. I think it was a Mark II but alas the detail is lost including the sound files. Remember I'm talking "similar" on the grand scale which includes A Zildjian Ping rides, K Zildjian (EAK) Heavy Rides, A Zildjian Thin Crashes, Istanbul Signature TW models, Bosphorus Traditional, K Zildjian Istanbul New Stamp, etc. There is another kind of "similar" which I call interchangeability. The question behind that sort of comparison is "would my musical enjoyment be hindered if I used a Dark Energy instead of a Sound Creation Dark Ride?".

The current generation of B20 Masters Dark Rides are a bit different in sound from the Sound Creations. I'd use the easy answer and put this down to the Masters being a lighter weight class so they have quite a bit more wash in the mix. Masters are 2600g-2700g versus the Sound Creation and Fo602 ones which are more like 3000g-3300g and the Dark Energy which are also around 3000g. Note I haven't been back and filled/expanded in the weight and used price details for the Dark Energy series although I've been collecting the data to do it. The there is also the Masters Dark Crisp which gets you into the next weight class up: 3100g - 3200g but I see I haven't added that to the Dark Ride summary page in the Wiki. That page is currently just models which have the name Dark rather than models whose name includes dark: Medium Dark, Light Dark, Dark Crisp, Dark Crash Ride, Dark Full Ride, et al. That means you have to look around to pick up the other models.

The relatively new Fo 602 ME combines some of the physical attributes of historical Dark Rides in a new mix. The weights are 2800g-3000g so they are getting up into the Dark Ride (or at least the uncommon 22" Medium Dark Ride 2900g-3000g) territory. The ME also uses the fine tonal groove lathing which the Fo602 and Sound Creation Dark Rides used. I haven't had a chance to look very closely at bells or profile.
 
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multijd

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There is an overview of Paiste Dark Rides on Cymbal Wiki


as well as links to dive deeper. As an overview I'd say that the 602 Dark Rides and Sound Creation Dark Rides were fairly similar. The closest replacement was the Dark Energy during the B20 hiatus. Once upon a time on Cymbalholic there was an A/B comparison of a Sound Creation Dark Ride and a Dark Energy showing they were fairly similar. I think it was a Mark II but alas the detail is lost including the sound files. Remember I'm talking "similar" on the grand scale which includes A Zildjian Ping rides, K Zildjian (EAK) Heavy Rides, A Zildjian Thin Crashes, Istanbul Signature TW models, Bosphorus Traditional, K Zildjian Istanbul New Stamp, etc. There is another kind of "similar" which I call interchangeability. The question behind that sort of comparison is "would my musical enjoyment be hindered if I used a Dark Energy instead of a Sound Creation Dark Ride?".

The current generation of B20 Masters Dark Rides are a bit different in sound from the Sound Creations. I'd use the easy answer and put this down to the Masters being a lighter weight class so they have quite a bit more wash in the mix. Masters are 2600g-2700g versus the Sound Creation and Fo602 ones which are more like 3000g-3300g and the Dark Energy which are also around 3000g. Note I haven't been back and filled/expanded in the weight and used price details for the Dark Energy series although I've been collecting the data to do it. The there is also the Masters Dark Crisp which gets you into the next weight class up: 3100g - 3200g but I see I haven't added that to the Dark Ride summary page in the Wiki. That page is currently just models which have the name Dark rather than models whose name includes dark: Medium Dark, Light Dark, Dark Crisp, Dark Crash Ride, Dark Full Ride, et al. That means you have to look around to pick up the other models.

The relatively new Fo 602 ME combines some of the physical attributes of historical Dark Rides in a new mix. The weights are 2800g-3000g so they are getting up into the Dark Ride (or at least the uncommon 22" Medium Dark Ride 2900g-3000g) territory. The ME also uses the fine tonal groove lathing which the Fo602 and Sound Creation Dark Rides used. I haven't had a chance to look very closely at bells or profile.
Great thanks as always for your commitment and knowledge!
 

jaymandude

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Yes on the ME.

I don't know if Paiste markets using the term "dark ride" anymore. You might check their site.
Sure they do. The most “basic” no frills 20 and 22 in the Masters are “Dark Ride”. Unlsss I’m misunderstanding you.

Yes to the ME 22 having similar characteristics of a SCDR. I’ve had both, although the SCDR is much much drier. And probably heavier. But the pin lathing is similar.
 

tkillian

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What is the closest modern cymbal to the Paiste Dark Ride? I know there was a Sound Creation and also 602. What are the different characteristics of each? Can we get these sounds today?
Thanks
JB
I dont think so.
Ive played and gigged them all.

If you want the scdr sound you have to get that exact cymbal.

If you want to get CLOSE then I would say

22" Paiste Rough Ride..I have one for sale
 

RIDDIM

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Sure they do. The most “basic” no frills 20 and 22 in the Masters are “Dark Ride”. Unless I’m misunderstanding you.

Yes to the ME 22 having similar characteristics of a SCDR. I’ve had both, although the SCDR is much much drier. And probably heavier. But the pin lathing is similar.
- Doh! You're right. This is what I get for texting before waking up. Mea culpa. I have a Masters 22" that's labelled Dark Ride. It's a very different critter from the SC Dark, however; it's more like a 22" Light Trad, with lots of wash, less definition.
 

zenstat

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That's a good start but the recording suffers from the classic auto gain and compression problems (and I presume a less than stunning mic on a cell phone) which get in the way of hearing some details of the sonic profiles for me. I haven't yet learned how to "listen through" those sorts of recording artifacts. True those recording artifacts are held constant since both recordings are made the same way...but we seem to be getting ear piercing pingy representations.

I prefer this recording from Thomas L as it seems more realistic to me -- based on a few months of playing one of these on my kit a few years ago.


and of course Bill Maley has a great sound recording set up as well


This SCDR vs New Dim comparison doesn't suffer from the SCDR vs DE recording issues as much but some aspects are still there

 

zenstat

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And three decent recordings of DE Mark II from MyCymbal which might show a change in recording style from the first (2010)


to the second (2014)


to last months's version


I'm thinking my preliminary executive summary would be

SCDR higher stick to wash ratio, less wash, doesn't open up as much on crashing, better for fast articulate ride patterns
DEII more wash, opens up better when you crash it, better suited to wash riding

based on doing a bit of listening since this topic came up. I wonder if a player could make the two cymbals sound more similar using touch and stick choice. Maybe even fool a proportion of listeners if we did a blind listening test? :dontknow:
 
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hardbat

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I finally had the chance to test out my 20" SCDR with a big band last week. Not sure whether or not I like it. It's different!
 

RIDDIM

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I finally had the chance to test out my 20" SCDR with a big band last week. Not sure whether or not I like it. It's different!
- I had one of those before I got my 22. The body sounded nice, but the bell was too small and sounded too tiny for rock and funk or even from playing Afro Cuban figures on jazz gigs. Somebody stole it and it ended up in London.
 


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