I snagged a pair on a whim from eBay for $31 + shipping. I was looking for something quiet to use on my assisted living facility gigs and was pleasantly surprised to discover that they are perfect for my needs. Mine are 13" at 514 and 520 grams. They would suck if you wanted hats for just about any other use (IMHO), but for super quiet gigs they are what I wanted. The moral is one never knows where the right cymbal(s) for the job will crop up unless one keeps and open mind and takes some chances.