Paiste Masters advice

Butch1970

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Hey Gang!

I've had a nice 20" Dark Crash rotating on and off the LH side of my kit for a while and decided to order a 22" Dark Ride and 15" Dark Hats. These seem to be likely stablemates. Still, I'm thinking of possibly trying the 20" Dark Crash Ride in the LH role. Or maybe something else? While the 20" Dark Crash can cover light ride duties, I'm feeling like I'm wanting something that's more of a ride, but still crashes really well.

For a little background, I've played Paiste (and Z's) for a long time and have a few that I may try to mix in with the Masters stuff: 20" 602 Flat, 20" ME Crash, 15" 602 Hats.
 

jaymandude

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Interesting... In that is one of my go to set ups, all Masters. 22 Ride, 20 crash, 15 Hats although lately I'm using a 19 Masters Extra thin on the left

My only suggesting would "maybe" be a 21 Big Beat. Definitely brighter, but maybe find one a little thinner ?
 

Butch1970

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@jaymandude - It's actually my plan to try to live with that setup: 15 Hats, 20 Crash and 22 Ride. That combo may just be the ticket, but you know how it goes :) When I first ordered the 20" Dark Crash I was torn a bit between that and the Dark Crash Ride, but it was actually a good crash that I needed at that moment.

I do have a 22 Big Beat that I've found to be more crash than ride. I've only tried that in a Rock context with larger 2002's, but I'll try that in the mix when the Masters Ride and Hats come in.
 

dustjacket

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Masters "Blue Bird" Mellow Ride seems to fit your criteria.
 

Soulfinger

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Masters "Blue Bird" Mellow Ride seems to fit your criteria.
Good call! I use one as a LH ride with a 22" Dark Ride, and it crashes quite well.
MY other two LH cymbals are a 20" Dark Crash Ride and a 20" Thin.
Paiste Masters are exceptionally beautiful cymbals, best I´ve ever played.
 

TPC

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I was going to suggest a BlueBird, also. Mellow, quiet, dark - a great sounding crash/ride. I'll often use it on the left opposite a 21" Masters Medium Ride (another absolutely stellar cymbal.)
 

DrumKeys

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I was going to suggest a BlueBird, also. Mellow, quiet, dark - a great sounding crash/ride. I'll often use it on the left opposite a 21" Masters Medium Ride (another absolutely stellar cymbal.)
The 21" Masters Medium isn't mentioned much on this forum but it's my favorite Paiste ride. I'm sure it would work very well with the BlueBird.
 
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sammy123

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I can also recommend the Mellow Ride. It's really nice. I use it on the right side along with the Big Beat 22", which sounds quite different in character to the Masters...although pitch wise is very close the the Mellow to my ears.

I use the Masters 22" Thin as my LSR. It's awesome.
 

tkillian

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My 20" paiste traditional medium light ride..covers both ride and crash really well

I dont understand what you are lacking in your 20 dark

It doesnt crash well?
 

Butch1970

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My 20" paiste traditional medium light ride..covers both ride and crash really well

I dont understand what you are lacking in your 20 dark

It doesnt crash well?
The 20" Dark Crash crashes VERY WELL. It even rides nicely at low-medium volumes. I was just feeling (maybe wrongly) that I'm wanting something with a better ride to crash ratio....a bit more ride, a bit less crash. I've actually been thinking on the Trad Med Light ride, but I've been stuck on the idea of wanting a 22" in that model.

Hopefully it won't take too long for the 22" Dark Ride and 15" Dark Hats to arrive, then I can make a more informed decision;)

Thanks to everyone that's contributed thus far. I'll make sure to post back once I've gotten the set together and played them a bit. I have a feeling that it may just work out.
 

Butch1970

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Bit late with a response to my own thread, but I settled on a 20" Dark Ride on the l/s to mate with the 22" Dark Ride and 15" Hats. The 20" Dark Ride has a bit more fire than the 22" but is a nice contrast. Will need to get these out of the practice room and into a gig situation to really assess them.

The 20" Dark Crash will likely work better as a l/s on quieter gigs. I've been using an 18" Bosphorus med-thin crash on the l/s along with with a 22" Masters Turk on some restaurant gigs so I imagine the Dark Crash would work just as well or better in that role :)
 

tkillian

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22″ Masters Dark ride with two rivets,
20″ Masters Dark crash/ride,
18″ Masters Dark crash
14″ Formula 602 Medium hi-hats
(Also plays a 22scdr he bought from me)
 
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Mcjnic

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22″ Masters Dark ride with two rivets,
20″ Masters Dark crash/ride,
18″ Masters Dark crash
14″ Formula 602 Medium hi-hats
(Also plays a 22scdr he bought from me)
It’s funny ... I have a 22 Paiste Masters Dark Ride that I’m struggling to mesh with.
This video is really helping me put the cymbal into perspective.
Thanks.
 

michaelg

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Some more masters in action,,, I wouldn't have thought the 20 crash/ride would be weighty/pingy enough for a big band but it sounds nice here, mind you its only the studio.
 

jtpaistegeist

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My masters jazz setup:

-22" Dark Ride
-20" Dark Ride
-20" Dark crash
-14" 602 Classic Med Hats

The 20" Dark Ride has the "umbrella" profile just like the 22", making it quite a bit higher pitched than the 20" dark crash. It also has nice tah sticking. IMO the 20" & 22" Dark rides are made for one another. The crash/rides are just like the dark ride, only a few hundred grams lighter, less stick def.
 

Butch1970

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@Mcjnic: What is it about the 22" Dark Ride that you're having trouble meshing with? I've had 2 in my practice room: one was a bit mellower and the other had a bit more highs (the one I decided to keep) but both had a fairly strong undertone that didn't take much stick to activate, especially if you move out of the sweet spot. I hear it when playing the cymbal solo, much less with a full kit but probably wouldn't hear it at all with other instruments around. It was there with both cymbals so I'm assuming it's a characteristic of the model. The 20" seems to have less of it, though.
 

Butch1970

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@jtpaistegeist: I agree on the 20" and 22" Dark Rides being a great pairing - same basic design but there's also some contrast in the sound and response. I've been digging on the 15" Dark Hats more over time, but am seeing a common theme of using a set of 14" 602 Mediums with the Masters. I have a set of 15" 602 Mediums that I should throw into the mix, but I'm feeling the pitch and response of the 14's might be more to my liking for Jazz stuff.

Have had no more than 3 cymbals set up on the practice kit over the last few weeks, but here's the Paiste's that have been on/off the kit:
- 22" Dark Ride
- 20" Dark Ride
- 20" Dark Crash
- 20" 602 Classic Flat Ride
- 15" Dark Hats
 

Mcjnic

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@Mcjnic: What is it about the 22" Dark Ride that you're having trouble meshing with? I've had 2 in my practice room: one was a bit mellower and the other had a bit more highs (the one I decided to keep) but both had a fairly strong undertone that didn't take much stick to activate, especially if you move out of the sweet spot. I hear it when playing the cymbal solo, much less with a full kit but probably wouldn't hear it at all with other instruments around. It was there with both cymbals so I'm assuming it's a characteristic of the model. The 20" seems to have less of it, though.
Well ... difficult to put into words without using phrases like “cahhhsssshhh” and “shhhwuuuwhup”.
But I will try.
It plays a bit stiff.
It has an odd dissonance that is off putting.
It lacks a distinct ping ... it has a ping, but it has a hard time playing well with the cushion underneath.
It doesn’t respond completely to a crash strike.

With all that said ... it does precisely what I believe it was designed to do. Having heard how it sits with the Masters crashes, it works.
That opened my eyes.
I have since purchased a set of Masters.
When they arrive, I will see if they behave for me.
 

Mcjnic

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... an update ...

I took delivery on the full set of Masters cymbals.
They are set up and I've sat with them for a full day.
15 Dark Hats
22 Dark Ride
20 Dark Crash
19 Dark Crash
18 Dark Crash

Good Grief!!!
These cymbals are unbelievable.
What I previously heard as oddness plays out as an unreal textural cushion underneath which can be raised and lowered with a simple shoulder strike.
I'm stunned.
These are some of the most perfectly balanced B20 alloy cymbals I've ever played.
I cannot believe just how off my ears were when I first messed around with that 22 ride.
Unreal.
This old dog has learned.
 


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