paiste old and mysterious

zogplanet

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16 and 18 inch crashes i assume
no other stamps or info other than simple PAISTE and number
what and how old are these
 
D

drumaholic

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Paiste can be dated by serial numbers. Nowadays serial number are 8 digits, with the first 2 indicating the prodcution year (05xxxxxx) would be made in 2005.
no number: pre 70es
6 digits no lettering: 70's first digit indicating year (6xxxxx) is 1976
6 digits with plain PAISTE stamp: 80's, (3xxxxx) is 1983
6 digits with pAisTe (logo): stamp 90's, (2xxxxx) is 1992
8 digits from second half 90es, see above.

I think the best candidate for these would be Giant Beats. I can't explain why they have no trademark though.
 

zogplanet

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i thought thats only to swiss made cymbals
these look older than 1983? no?
if these were made in germany would that explain no logo?
 
D

drumaholic

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zogplanet said:
i thought thats only to swiss made cymbals
these look older than 1983? no?
if these were made in germany would that explain no logo?



German made cymbals say, "Made in Germany", and they don't have serial numbers.
And they look like B-8.
 
D

drumaholic

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404's. Yes I think so. The hammering really doesn't look like Giant Beats as much as that.
 
D

drumaholic

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gezz said:
1983 404's my guess... my bet :)


404's....I didn't think of that. Yes I think so. The hammering really doesn't look as much like Giant Beats as it does that.

And 1983 is correct. Good call.
 

gezz

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The hammering and lathing is 100% 404 in my opinion... i have seen some old well used models that look identical to these... originally they had black ink which later changed to Dark Brown around 1981. Good Cymbals.. entry level + there are a few forum members with a few.
:)
 

toddlittle827

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Old German-made Paiste do have serial numbers from the early 70s onwards just like the Swiss cymbals. They used a different system than the Swiss system. The first digit does not equal the year. They are numbered consecutively. If you are looking at a German Black Label Paiste from the 1970s, the second digit is a good general indicator of the year. I.E. a German 2002 with a 17xxxx serial is from 1977 or 1978. In this case, a lower third digit most likely = 1977 while a higher third digit puts you closer to 1978. The first 404 and 505s which came out in 1978 have 177xxx serial numbers close to that of the last of the Dixies and Stambuls which are metal stamped as such but have 404 and 505 ink stamps above the bell (leftovers of the old lines sold as the new line)
The 2xxxxx German Black Labels are from late 1979 to early 1981.
 

D. B. Cooper

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Old German-made Paiste do have serial numbers from the early 70s onwards just like the Swiss cymbals. They used a different system than the Swiss system. The first digit does not equal the year. They are numbered consecutively. If you are looking at a German Black Label Paiste from the 1970s, the second digit is a good general indicator of the year. I.E. a German 2002 with a 17xxxx serial is from 1977 or 1978. In this case, a lower third digit most likely = 1977 while a higher third digit puts you closer to 1978. The first 404 and 505s which came out in 1978 have 177xxx serial numbers close to that of the last of the Dixies and Stambuls which are metal stamped as such but have 404 and 505 ink stamps above the bell (leftovers of the old lines sold as the new line)
The 2xxxxx German Black Labels are from late 1979 to early 1981.
Great info, brother!
FYI, this thread started and ending 10 years ago...
 

toddlittle827

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yeah, I like to chime in on old threads I come across that have incorrect or outdated info. If I am coming across them so are other people and that helps perpetuate a few things regarding vintage Paiste that are not accurate.

Another one of these common things I see is that Stambul '65 replaced Stambul in 1965. This is 100% wrong. Stambul '65 and Stambul were completely different lines that were sold concurrently with Stambul '65 going out of production sometime between 1971 and 1973 and Stambul (which switched from Ns12 to B8 at some point after 1965) surviving until 1977 when it was replaced by the 505s in 1978.
 
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zenstat

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Great info, brother!
FYI, this thread started and ending 10 years ago...
Todd is on a campaign to correct misinformation in old threads. The interwebs have a long memory and people who aren't in the know will find an old thread while searching because search engines don't pay any attention to accuracy of information. Although all this new research will eventually make it into cymbal wiki


it seems useful to correct it in old posts because people will still stumble across it rather then the up to date properly curated information in the wiki.

I do the same with some Old A and Old K and Italian threads but I'm not as diligent as Todd. I also use forum posts as a "test case" to improve my writing so I communicate effectively to the target audience. Although not everybody wants to relearn out of date information


Looking at those 2009 posts above I was reminded that just yesterday I was pondering what the half life of cymbal identification is? That is how many years before half the information in a post (or published article) becomes outdated to the point of being misleading. 5 years half life? longer?
 

toddlittle827

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For us Paiste guys who are into the old vintage lines it's tough. Even Paiste Customer Service puts out incomplete or erroneous information.
Frustrating.
 

Elvis

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Old German-made Paiste do have serial numbers from the early 70s onwards just like the Swiss cymbals. They used a different system than the Swiss system. The first digit does not equal the year. They are numbered consecutively. If you are looking at a German Black Label Paiste from the 1970s, the second digit is a good general indicator of the year. I.E. a German 2002 with a 17xxxx serial is from 1977 or 1978. In this case, a lower third digit most likely = 1977 while a higher third digit puts you closer to 1978. The first 404 and 505s which came out in 1978 have 177xxx serial numbers close to that of the last of the Dixies and Stambuls which are metal stamped as such but have 404 and 505 ink stamps above the bell (leftovers of the old lines sold as the new line)
The 2xxxxx German Black Labels are from late 1979 to early 1981.
Todd,

Does this info pertain to the NS12 Standard cymbals, too?
I had a 22" Ludwig Paiste Standard and it said it was made in Germany, but didn't have a serial.


Elvis
 

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