Paiste set around Traditional 22

[oswaldo]

I love this ride, it's my first Paiste cymbal and want to build a set around it. I'm playing jazz, jazz-funk and blues. Small combos. I'm planning to add a big crash/ride on the left, probably a 20" Masters or 602 ME.
But I'm a bit overwhelmed about hihat options. Definetely don't like Sig Trad hats.
I need a nice chick for jazz, sweet open swish for funky grooves and jazz pattern and still get some closed stick definition. Not too dark not too bright nor loud/clangy. 15"ers are a good compromise.
Any clue?

 

[Soulfinger]

Formula 602 Modern Essentials 15". Those check all the boxes.
For the left side - 20" Masters Dark Crash Ride.
I have both of them and cannot recommend them enough.

 

[michiganice91]

602 sound edge or 4o4 medium hats would be my recommendation.

 

[dustjacket]

15” Modern Essentials. This is the path.

 

[peter]

I love the Dark Energy hi-hats, and both the Traditionals and Dark Energy crashes are beautiful.

The DE hi-hats have a rare combination of A. crisp, solid, and chunky foot-chick, B. good presence and upper volume range played with the stick, AND C. excellent sensitivity, meaning they still "sizzle" and don't sound clangy when played very lightly. Pretty hard to find all three of those qualities in a single pair of hi-hats.

The 602 Modern Essentials are similarly good, but a little more "classic" and traditional sounding.

 

[Moonman]

I love the Dark Energy hi-hats, and both the Traditionals and Dark Energy crashes are beautiful.

The DE hi-hats have a rare combination of A. crisp, solid, and chunky foot-chick, B. good presence and upper volume range played with the stick, AND C. excellent sensitivity, meaning they still "sizzle" and don't sound clangy when played very lightly. Pretty hard to find all three of those qualities in a single pair of hi-hats.

The 602 Modern Essentials are similarly good, but a little more "classic" and traditional sounding.

How would you compare the feel under the stick when playing the Modern Essentials vs. the DE? I have 15 DE hats but have been considering something a little softer in feel, not necessarily sound. Thanks in advance!

 

[jtpaistegeist]

For the 15" size, I have owned the ME & own the DE. I prefer the DE, they are very smooth/dark, fairly soft, but can be aggressive when needed. Personally, they just fit my style best.

I use my 22" Trad Ride most of the time with a Masters 20" Dark CR, 18 or 20" ME Crash, or 18" Sig Mellow Crash. They all work very nicely with that ride.

 

[Elvis]

I love this ride, it's my first Paiste cymbal and want to build a set around it. I'm playing jazz, jazz-funk and blues. Small combos. I'm planning to add a big crash/ride on the left, probably a 20" Masters or 602 ME.
But I'm a bit overwhelmed about hihat options. Definetely don't like Sig Trad hats.
I need a nice chick for jazz, sweet open swish for funky grooves and jazz pattern and still get some closed stick definition. Not too dark not too bright nor loud/clangy. 15"ers are a good compromise.
Any clue?

I experiemented with Paiste some time ago and ended up a full set of Paiste cymbals to go with my Ludwig kit.
When it came to hats, I noticed that I liked the 13" Sig. Dark Crisp hats I had gotten.
They were exactly as the name says, Dark and crisp (although, as a whole, Sigs are fairly bright, so maybe those hats were the darker side of bright?).
One thing I didn't like was they couldn't slosh worth a dam.
"Clangy" is a good description of what happens when you try that.
Swing beat sounds horrible on those hats.
I soon realized two things abut Paiste; 1)The DC hats were basically the New Beat formula on acid. The top was very light and the bottom was extremely heavy. 2) Every hat that Paiste was making around that time was some variation on the DC formula.
I think my 13's scaled out to around 746g/1340g....and these were 13's.
I quickly figure out the problem was the extremely heavy bottom cymbal and set about rectifying that.
After quite a bit of experimentation, what I ended up with was a Signature Dark Energy top over a Signature Medium bottom (the Medium hats have the lightest bottom cymbal in the whole Signature line up. This is why I went for that one).
The weights ended up scaling out at 748g/935.5g (still 13's).
I still have that setup and they sound fantastic.
Initially, I was still using the Sig DC top, so the setup was like a set of "Mellow Hats", but the Dark Energy series had recently come out so I decided to see what it would do for the setup.
It was SO nice when I replaced that DC top with the DE.
Really "classed up" the sound of the hats. Noticably darker, with little "sparkly's" in the sound.....like stars twinkling in the night sky.
Really!

SO, that would be my advice - Dark Energy top over a Signature Medium bottom.

FWIW, I do have a set of 15's as well, but those are Istanbul's. They're very nice as well.
I feel quite fortunate, in the high-hat department, to have been so blessed with such great sets of cymbals.

Elvis

 

[peter]

How would you compare the feel under the stick when playing the Modern Essentials vs. the DE? I have 15 DE hats but have been considering something a little softer in feel, not necessarily sound. Thanks in advance!

Really very similar feel to me; they both have medium-thin tops paired with pretty chunky bottoms (esp. the DE's). Which I think is a big part of those sound attributes that I like so much about them.

Feel-wise I think the Modern Essentials are perhaps a little stiffer in tension, but lighter playing overall as the bottoms aren't quite as chunky. Perhaps the DE's have a bit of a softer, more buttery feeling top, but the overall feel remains solid as the bottoms are quite heavy (14's being +1,400g).

Certainly can't go wrong with either.

 

[zenghost]

How would you compare the feel under the stick when playing the Modern Essentials vs. the DE? I have 15 DE hats but have been considering something a little softer in feel, not necessarily sound. Thanks in advance!

I have, and most often use, the 15" 602 Modern Essential hats - love them (same with the 14" model) in both sound and feel - as close to perfection for a versatile set of hats as I'm gonna get. This is in conjunction with a 22" Traditional Medium-light ride, which is also lovely. I also use 17" and 19" Dark Energy crashes and an 8" DE splash in my set-up (along with 22" Masters Swish).

I had heard so much good about the 15" DE hats, that I had to try a pair. Absolutely did not work for me. Same with 15" Traditional hats. The bottom hi-hat in the pair for both seemed like a manhole cover to - far too heavy for my tastes.

The 15" Masters Thin hats (not the standard weight) are also a clear winner for me. Very different, but I use them almost as much as my 15" 602 ME hats.

 

[NobleCooleyNut]

Formula 602 Modern Essentials 15". Those check all the boxes.
For the left side - 20" Masters Dark Crash Ride.
I have both of them and cannot recommend them enough.

I have both of these two along with the 22” Traditional Light ride and 17” Traditional thin crash and these are my go to cymbals for everything I play from small group Jazz , Big Band or acoustic Rock and Pop gigs .

 

[MacDaddy]

Formula 602 Modern Essentials 15". Those check all the boxes.
For the left side - 20" Masters Dark Crash Ride.
I have both of them and cannot recommend them enough.

+1 on the Modern Essentials Hats. I use 15" but if someone is more comfortable with 14" they couldn't go wrong with those either.

I was going to say that I have the Masters Dark Crash and find it to be a bit easily overwhelmed so I'd avoid it for a Crash Ride situation so you may be right on with the Dark Crash Ride recommendation.

I'd even consider another Traditionals ride or crash. Although discontinued, I have a couple of nice 20" Traditionals Medium Rides that make incredible crashes. The 20" Crash is spectacular.

 

[MacDaddy]

How would you compare the feel under the stick when playing the Modern Essentials vs. the DE? I have 15 DE hats but have been considering something a little softer in feel, not necessarily sound. Thanks in advance!

I have both and the ME's are exactly what you are describing. Softer feeling but still lots of sonic options. They are my most used by far. For even softer there are Giant Beat or Big Beat. The GB's are mellower sounding while the BB's are light but have more top end edge or crispness.

 

[Heartbeat]

I had a love-hate relationship with my 15" MEs. Great sound, but I just couldn't get enough foot chick out of them. Way too soft. So I paired a 15" 602 medium top with a 602 heavy bottom (my Paiste version of New Beats), and LOVE this combo. Great sound AND enough foot chick. So don't be afraid to mix and match.

 

[maxb2k]

Modern Essentials 15 hats are such great players. They remind me of my favorite pair of ‘70’s Zil New Beats. M.E. play fast, the top/bottom weights have a good spread, good chick (IMHO sorry Heartbeat), warm sizzle or slosh, but most important for me is how well they sit in the mix. Their smooth mid range make them perfect for vocals, and they have a great presence.

For crash-ride I can’t say enough good things about the Dark Energy 19“ crash. Please have a listen . . . even though it’s designated Crash, it rides better than crashes (if that makes any sense). Beautiful dark tonality, smokey, sizzley, great feel under the stick.

 

[Elvis]

osw000,

Did you ever find a set of hats that you liked?


Elvis

 

[James Walker]

I love this ride, it's my first Paiste cymbal and want to build a set around it. I'm playing jazz, jazz-funk and blues. Small combos. I'm planning to add a big crash/ride on the left, probably a 20" Masters or 602 ME.
But I'm a bit overwhelmed about hihat options. Definetely don't like Sig Trad hats.
I need a nice chick for jazz, sweet open swish for funky grooves and jazz pattern and still get some closed stick definition. Not too dark not too bright nor loud/clangy. 15"ers are a good compromise.
Any clue?

FWIW, I like how my 15" pre-serial 602s match up with my 22" Trads medium light, much better than the 14" Traditionals hi-hats.

(As an aside, I still find it perplexing that, unless I'm mistaken, Paiste never offered a thinner version of the Trads hats. If I ever have some money to play with, I intend to pick up a set and send them off to a cymbalsmith to have some weight taken off of them.)

 

[digovii]

FWIW, I like how my 15" pre-serial 602s match up with my 22" Trads medium light, much better than the 14" Traditionals hi-hats.

(As an aside, I still find it perplexing that, unless I'm mistaken, Paiste never offered a thinner version of the Trads hats. If I ever have some money to play with, I intend to pick up a set and send them off to a cymbalsmith to have some weight taken off of them.)

They did for a bit. Pretty rare, and expensive when they pop up. Here is the only set I could find online...

Paiste 14" Signature Light Dark Hi-Hat Cymbals (Pair) 2000 - 2009 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

 

[Elvis]

They did for a bit. Pretty rare, and expensive when they pop up. Here is the only set I could find online...

Paiste 14" Signature Light Dark Hi-Hat Cymbals (Pair) 2000 - 2009 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

Those aren't from the Traditional series.
I believe those are Dark Energy hats. Seems like they had a Light Dark ride, too.
The Trads only came as the "DC-style" hats, with the thin top and the extra heavy bottom.
This is why I had to mix-and-match cymbals to get a hat setup I was happy with (as mentioned in my prior post), because almost everything they were putting out then was styled after the Dark Crisp setup.

 

[oswaldo]

osw000,

Did you ever find a set of hats that you liked?


Elvis

Indeed, Agop Mel Lewis 14" are pretty close to perfect