Paradiddles didn't make my hands independent

utetwo

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I'd suggest dumping the self-talk regarding "independence". that's an often misused term. You're saying dotted 8ths or 16ths is tough to grasp, i would say that falls under the category of syncopation. In any case, are you working only on a pad or snare drum? (do you play drum set yet?)

As you're still at around the first year of playing I wouldn't be too concerned about independence. That is actually at a minimum an intermediate concept as a learning drummer. You're still working on fundamentals. Some of the fundamentals do indeed involve rudiments which may have independence involved. You're probably on the edge of learning more about independence. Keep practicing rudiments. Do you read drum music? I suggest learning how to do this if you don't already. And, as with even the simplest exercises or rudiments easy or difficult, start practicing slow and work your way up, that's usually easier because the neuroconnections work that way. What is tough the first time is gradually easier. Practice a new figure or rudiment slowly and if it is tough or you're not "getting it" just put it away and address it the next day. That way you'll give your subconscious mind a chance to kick into gear with some muscle memory and eventually it should slip into a groove for you. Think about playing musical first of all, so the second it isn't grooving, slow down or even stop, pick it up again. Don't give up, you're still building fundamentals.

Most of all, remember you're having fun!
Thank you for the reply. I do play drum set. I'm able to do things like the doublekick and play the bass dram without my right hand following it, but I was shocked when I realized my hands still aren't independent from each other.

Am I not supposed to be at an intermediate level after a year? I don't know what to expect of myself. (I don't know whether I should beat myself up about my lack thereof progress or not lol.)

I taught myself how to read sheet music before I got a drum set, so I'm good in that regard.

My drumming instructor says I'm on the brink of being "intermediate", but I don't think I can get there without tackling this limb independence problem.

I appreciate the comment. I suppose I don't know what I should or shouldn't have accomplished after a year. Your insight is appreciated.
 

RIDDIM

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That's exactly where I'm heading lately. Working on the gaps in between. I'm sure I have the skills to pass muster with some or many musicians and I really need to be working on that part more. Playing actual songs well is a whole dynamic beyond technique and skill development that I think I've been lacking.
If the purpose of an instrument is to make music, then we ought to be able to play the instrument along with it, no?

We learned as children to speak from those around us. The same logic applies here. Go to You Tube, pull up some Beatles tunes or something similar, and play along with them. If you can't play along yet, just sing or hum the melodies. Once you've learned those, learn and sing the bass parts. Then the chordal part, then whatever the soloist does over those. Then listen to the drum part and how it relates to all of the above. Learn to vocalize the drum part, then train your body to emulate it. Repeat as needed.

Don't just emulate what they did; listen for why they did what they did. Later on, for those situations in which a drum part is not there to emulate, you can use the same processes to create your own (if the music needs drums). This will help you think like a musician, not just as another drummer.

I hope this helps.
 

multijd

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Thank you for the reply. I do play drum set. I'm able to do things like the doublekick and play the bass dram without my right hand following it, but I was shocked when I realized my hands still aren't independent from each other.

Am I not supposed to be at an intermediate level after a year? I don't know what to expect of myself. (I don't know whether I should beat myself up about my lack thereof progress or not lol.)

I taught myself how to read sheet music before I got a drum set, so I'm good in that regard.

My drumming instructor says I'm on the brink of being "intermediate", but I don't think I can get there without tackling this limb independence problem.

I appreciate the comment. I suppose I don't know what I should or shouldn't have accomplished after a year. Your insight is appreciated.
Some of the comments here are good ideas but may be too advanced given what you are describing. If you can read I would suggest the “Progressive Steps to Syncopation for the Modern Drummer” book by Ted Reed. This book and “Stick Control” by George Lawrence Stone should be tackled before the Chapin book or Polyrhythms.

In the Reed book play the top line with one hand and the bottom with the other. Go back and switch hands. Start at the beginning. Go slow. Be sure to master each exercise before moving on. Once you feel comfortable with a set of exercises (ie. Lesson 1-4) go back and play an ostinato, (1/8 the on the ride cymbal, 1/4 on the bass drum, 2&4 on hi hat with left foot) and play the stems up with left hand on snare. You could also play the ride and a back beat on snare and play the line on the bass drum.

Stick control will get your hands in shape. Play each exercise 20x’s as written.
 

dcrigger

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Some of the comments here are good ideas but may be too advanced given what you are describing. If you can read I would suggest the “Progressive Steps to Syncopation for the Modern Drummer” book by Ted Reed. This book and “Stick Control” by George Lawrence Stone should be tackled before the Chapin book or Polyrhythms.

In the Reed book play the top line with one hand and the bottom with the other. Go back and switch hands. Start at the beginning. Go slow. Be sure to master each exercise before moving on. Once you feel comfortable with a set of exercises (ie. Lesson 1-4) go back and play an ostinato, (1/8 the on the ride cymbal, 1/4 on the bass drum, 2&4 on hi hat with left foot) and play the stems up with left hand on snare. You could also play the ride and a back beat on snare and play the line on the bass drum.

Stick control will get your hands in shape. Play each exercise 20x’s as written.
Great post IMO

I would only add - seeing as we really can't know where you are at - before tackling Ted Reed as an hands independence exercise, confirm that you can play the top line with your hands against tapping your foot on the beat. Then move onto to what multijd suggests.

I would say that the first section of the Chapin book is about the same level of difficulty as the Reed book used this way.

Alway just as another benchmark - I would think that if you are at the level we seem to be assuming, then you should be able to play (actually pretty much sight read) everything in Haskell Hard Book 1 and be well on your way into Book 2.

If not - that would suggest that maybe "I'm good" where it comes to reading common rhythms may be a bit premature. If so, no problem - just take your self through the Hard books and fill in the holes.

Quite frankly - focusing on hand independence before Hard 1 (and 2) are easy-peasy for you is putting the horse a bit in front of the cart. IMO.
 

Matched Gripper

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Some of the comments here are good ideas but may be too advanced given what you are describing. If you can read I would suggest the “Progressive Steps to Syncopation for the Modern Drummer” book by Ted Reed. This book and “Stick Control” by George Lawrence Stone should be tackled before the Chapin book or Polyrhythms.

In the Reed book play the top line with one hand and the bottom with the other. Go back and switch hands. Start at the beginning. Go slow. Be sure to master each exercise before moving on. Once you feel comfortable with a set of exercises (ie. Lesson 1-4) go back and play an ostinato, (1/8 the on the ride cymbal, 1/4 on the bass drum, 2&4 on hi hat with left foot) and play the stems up with left hand on snare. You could also play the ride and a back beat on snare and play the line on the bass drum.

Stick control will get your hands in shape. Play each exercise 20x’s as written.
I have to disagree, in part. In my view, there is no reason methods like Stick Control, Advanced Techniques and a good reading method like Modern Reading Text in 4/4, can’t studied together. In fact, I think its preferable. JMO!
 

multijd

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I have to disagree, in part. In my view, there is no reason methods like Stick Control, Advanced Techniques and a good reading method like Modern Reading Text in 4/4, can’t studied together. In fact, I think its preferable. JMO!
No disagreement it’s just the matter of difficulty. The beginning of Syncopation is just quarter notes. I’m going under the assumption that those pages are the level of difficulty that the op can handle. We really don’t know.
 

BennyK

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s l o w l y

understand the space between the notes and observe yourself , the way you interpret it .
 

Pat A Flafla

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John Riley says independence is a misnomer. You really don't want that. What you're really looking for is interdependence. That's when each limb knows exactly what the other is doing and how they interact together, not independently. He's right. This may be a shift in thinking, but it will result in tighter playing and more rapid development of coordination.
By that definition, the thing I mentioned would fall under the inter- category. Whatever the term, that's the useful thing for an intermediate level drummer. I believe Minnemann's book is called Extreme Interdependence. There are drummers like Horacio Hernandez, and pianists like Ethan Iverson (formerly of The Bad Plus) who have achieved true independence, where they establish one line and play an unrelated line with another limb, and it all ends up on the downbeat as if they have two brains. That right there is something absolutely no beginning musician needs to worry about. (But it sure is badasssss...)
 

toddbishop

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Sure they're independent-- you're playing 1 &a e with one hand and e 2 &a with the other. Totally different rhythms.

At least that's as independent as anything ever is in drumming. Independence isn't really an accurate word to describe drumming coordination. All it is is coordinating the hands and feet to play opposite each other, and in unison, to make a new combined rhythm. That's 100% of what independence is.
 
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RIDDIM

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Thank you for the reply. I do play drum set. I'm able to do things like the doublekick and play the bass dram without my right hand following it, but I was shocked when I realized my hands still aren't independent from each other.

Am I not supposed to be at an intermediate level after a year? I don't know what to expect of myself. (I don't know whether I should beat myself up about my lack thereof progress or not lol.)

I taught myself how to read sheet music before I got a drum set, so I'm good in that regard.

My drumming instructor says I'm on the brink of being "intermediate", but I don't think I can get there without tackling this limb independence problem.

I appreciate the comment. I suppose I don't know what I should or shouldn't have accomplished after a year. Your insight is appreciated.
- It's not clear from what you write exactly what your problem is. Can you post an example of something you want to be able to play but believe you lack the independence to execute? Then we may be able to give more useful answers. The point made about Chapin earlier is valid. And I just thought of another - can you play this without your lead hand following your bass drum?
That was a source of trouble for some of my peers when it came out. Let us know and we'll go from there.
 

thenuge

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Stuff I was happy about after my first year of playing:

making it to 6th grade
the ability to carry my acro in the ufo case to school every day with one hand
stopping throwing things at girls but unsure what to do instead
continuing to fool my band director about my ability to read music
star wars (the first one) was coming out
being able to spell independence - as in the declaration of..
 

utetwo

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- It's not clear from what you write exactly what your problem is. Can you post an example of something you want to be able to play but believe you lack the independence to execute? Then we may be able to give more useful answers. The point made about Chapin earlier is valid. And I just thought of another - can you play this without your lead hand following your bass drum?
That was a source of trouble for some of my peers when it came out. Let us know and we'll go from there.
This is what I've been trying to do:
16176311517171337980769077832733.jpg
 

toddbishop

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This is what I've been trying to do:
View attachment 493243
Try playing them as a sticking, with R, L, and B for both hands in unison. Mark them in the 'key' parts on the right if you want.

1 would be B LB BB LB B -- rhythm is 1 a2 a3 a4 a
2: B B BB B B -- rhythm is 1 2 a3 4 a
3: B LB RB LB R -- rhythm is same as 1
 
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JDA

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First one
play the bass drum part first
add the hand

the second one
take slow

the third one
frankly you'll never use in real life
but if you must
play the bass drum part first
then add the hand

quarter note around 76 metronome marking on the metronome
 
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Tornado

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This is what I've been trying to do:
View attachment 493243
OK, I think I see what's going on here. You're struggling with this, and I think maybe you think maybe there's a rudiment or exercise that you can do that will make it fall into place. The good news is...you are doing the exercise. The bad news is, there's nothing you can do other than hours of practice.

There are intelligent ways to go about this though. First, do it SLOW. Slower than slow. Do it so slow that you can't rely on your limbs going to "autopilot". Doing it slow forces you to concentrate on every movement. Focus on what it feels like when your hand and foot hit together. I promise you this works. It's helping to create efficient paths in your brain. You'll notice improvement day after day. Second, these are short phrases, but you can make them even shorter if you're having a problem with only a small piece of it. Just do that small piece over and over until you can't mess it up. Then put it back together.
 

utetwo

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OK, I think I see what's going on here. You're struggling with this, and I think maybe you think maybe there's a rudiment or exercise that you can do that will make it fall into place. The good news is...you are doing the exercise. The bad news is, there's nothing you can do other than hours of practice.

There are intelligent ways to go about this though. First, do it SLOW. Slower than slow. Do it so slow that you can't rely on your limbs going to "autopilot". Doing it slow forces you to concentrate on every movement. Focus on what it feels like when your hand and foot hit together. I promise you this works. It's helping to create efficient paths in your brain. You'll notice improvement day after day. Second, these are short phrases, but you can make them even shorter if you're having a problem with only a small piece of it. Just do that small piece over and over until you can't mess it up. Then put it back together.
I have no problem with practicing for hours. I've been stuck inside with nothing to do for a year now lmao. I never understood how to practice this sort of thing though. I'm going to try some of the techniques described in this thread. If I can notice even the slightest improvement, hours of practice will be well worth it!
 

JDA

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you must play the phrases longer to get the feel; start with the bass drum alone for 20-30 seconds or more..then add the hand. Must get comfortable 1 limb (say the bass foot) first comfortable. locked in. stable. then add the hand.
don't look at them as short ....look at them as long.....like a ride thruout a 3 minute tune.
 

Tornado

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I have no problem with practicing for hours. I've been stuck inside with nothing to do for a year now lmao. I never understood how to practice this sort of thing though. I'm going to try some of the techniques described in this thread. If I can notice even the slightest improvement, hours of practice will be well worth it!
I didn't mean to imply you weren't practicing, lol. But sometimes we spend a lot of time looking for something else to practice that we think will help us, then spend hours on that and what we should have been doing was right in front of us the whole time.
 

utetwo

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you must play the phrases longer to get the feel; start with the bass drum alone for 20-30 seconds or more..then add the hand. Must get comfortable 1 limb ( say the bass foot) first comfortable. locked in. stable. then add the hand.
don't look at them as short ....look at them as long.....like a ride thruout a tune..
I forgot to mention: This excersize uses both hands: no feet. It's slightly off-putting how they made the chart.
 


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