Patina- sound impact

712drummer

DFO Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
1,644
Reaction score
64
Location
Philly Suburbs
So you have a cymbal will lots of patina and dirt. (Lets assume nothing collectible). You clean it woth typical cymbal cleaner so it looks brand new. What does it do to the sound? Brighter? more wash?
Not really an audible difference?
 

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
16,479
Reaction score
5,331
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
ime it's not worth trying to decipher or think about.. it's over you can't put the dirt back on (as it was exactly..) the patina is something that occurs 'within' the bronze...( so you really don't "restore" it ( may be iffy wrong on that but...but no change worth pondering (or cleaning for that matter unless it's really offensive (ha
 

JazzDrumGuy

DFO Star
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
9,368
Reaction score
1,800
Location
Pebble Beach, CA
Brighter, more brilliant and treble. I doubt it would affect the wash.

I actually have a Soultone 19" flat ride with the "old school patina" - a bunch of fake green stuff as made by the factory. It looks awful! I am going to be removing using Citrustrip. I'll try to do a before & after. The cymbal is pretty new (maybe 1 year old) and has no dirt, just way too much "patina".

Check this video out. I don't know why he put a rivet into the 2nd part - sort of apples and oranges, but you can tell the first one is a tad brighter (maybe why he added a rivet later?)......

 

shiek_yerbouti

Very well Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
332
Taking off dirt and patina will make it sound brighter and you will have more wash. So you should figure out if you like how it sounds as it is or if you want a brighter more open sound before doing anything.

You can wash with soap and water and that will take you somewhere in between (as opposed to polishing it). Soap and water won’t remove patina, but removing the dirt can affect the sound a little bit.

Like Joe says you can’t put it back, so try and make sure what you want from it first. I have one cymbal in particular that I cleaned as soon as I got it and I wish I could put that dirt back on as it was. Other cymbals can benefit from staying clean.
 

toddbishop

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
61
Reaction score
61
Here's a 22" Cymbal & Gong ride before and after it got its patina-- the normal Holy Grail patina, which is pretty light. It just mellows the sound somewhat, and has a subtle look. They also do a crustier thing which I request for some of my personal cymbals, which has a more pronounced effect.
 

CC Cirillo

Very well Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
632
Reaction score
931
Location
Northern California
A lifetime ago when I cleaned my cymbals I swear it seemed to brighten the sound, although that could be a psychological effect of the eye fooling the ear.

...but I have no recent data. These days l like my cymbals how I like my martinis: dirty.
 

ThomFloor

Very well Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2017
Messages
738
Reaction score
428
Here's a 22" Cymbal & Gong ride before and after it got its patina-- the normal Holy Grail patina, which is pretty light. It just mellows the sound somewhat, and has a subtle look. They also do a crustier thing which I request for some of my personal cymbals, which has a more pronounced effect.
Can hear a difference. Just curious what is the weight of that 22 ride?
 

JimmySticks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
411
Reaction score
355
Location
Queens NY
A lifetime ago when I cleaned my cymbals I swear it seemed to brighten the sound, although that could be a psychological effect of the eye fooling the ear.

...but I have no recent data. These days l like my cymbals how I like my martinis: dirty.
Yeah, I think your right.

I once cleaned an old cymbal that had a dull, dingy look to a high brilliance with Bar Keepers Friend, and I could swear it kind of changed the cymbals sound by making it brighter. Now I leave em alone! :wacko:
 

Tama CW

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
1,205
Location
SE Connecticut
Here's a 19 inch trans stamp I picked up recently (1699 gm). Patina is very deep brown and it certainly dries out the stick sound tremendously as a left side ride...very clean stick with minimal wash. Though, a little dullish imo....especially on a medium weight which should be pretty bright on its own. Also makes it a much faster crash....literally a medium weight - fast crash with a bit of trash. Could be a lot brighter with a few more overtones. Yet, it has overtones that linger for 5-10 seconds after crashing so it's a long ways from "dead." Tempted to make it brighter but at the same time know that I could end up with something I would like even less. And I don't like polished cymbals. It's actually darker toned in hand than the photos show....a deep mahogany color....the first step towards all black. Hmmm, what to do?

best 1.jpg


best 2.jpg
 
Last edited:

Tama CW

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
1,205
Location
SE Connecticut
Here's 2 pairs of trans stamp hats. The first pair with a lot of "green." The green didn't seem to have much effect on the tone. Second pair was almost black on one of the cymbals. Those were exceptionally dry with minimal wash. Way too dry for me....but still "cool."

IMG_20181105_230906.jpg
Zildjian trans stamp 14 paper thin tops  659-712.jpg
 
Last edited:

Tama CW

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
1,205
Location
SE Connecticut
I've a near brilliant (14" with 5 rivets 562g around there) trans stamp--- It's clean as a whistle and it's---------dry....(design not patina
Yeah. At that paper thin weight they all tend to be dry. I had an 18" trans stamp at 1160 gms that was cleaned of any patina long before I got it. That was the dryest cymbal I've ever owned. It sounded like putting a stick to a piece of aluminum flashing. Those dark trans hats above were around 660/710 gms and as dry as a lightly toned 565 gm 14" trans I once owned.
 

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
16,479
Reaction score
5,331
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
yep; See mine wasn't cleaned I think it stayed that way all these years. I think it was the lathing. The couple years I've owned it ....it hasn't changed.
The 1st Stamp 14" also I have - is so alive it nearly jumps off the stand....but there weren't too many large 1st stamps (that I know of)
My friend had some very special trans stamp hi hats they felt and sound just like old Ks very close
 

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
16,479
Reaction score
5,331
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
He passed away---and this seller---has some of his items---- could these be the hi hats----I'm not sure.......


check his perc items he has some spider rondinelli items (but not the gretsch set I don't know where that went)...
 
Last edited:

Tama CW

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
1,205
Location
SE Connecticut
Sorry to hear that particular Ebay seller has/had some of Spider's old gear. I rank that seller in my top 3 of all Ebayer's to avoid. Ridiculously over-priced on nearly all of their drum gear....and their descriptions don't help any. Not a chance I'd risk buying a cymbal from them. That 20" small stamp 50's ride (2054 gm) at $400? They typically go for $125-$150....and $175 would be stretching it.
 
Last edited:

JDA

DFO Star
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
16,479
Reaction score
5,331
Location
Jeannette, Pa.
Yeah I don't know how his stuff- some of it- got over to Ohio...from Pittsburgh) it's weird but that blue Pearl set was a dog (for jazz) he never used; but the seller got some of his items; maybe a relative of the wife is all I can think..I never heard of that seller until I came across the items
 

Latest posts



Top