Paul Francis left Zildjian?

lossforgain

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Their HH and HHX especially the Legacy HHX come very close to any Turk out there and to some peoples ears are significantly less expensive
I have to disagree. When a new HH ride is $350-400 that puts their pricing right up there with all the others, at least depending on where you get them. I’ve been buying a lot of my new Turkish cymbals on Amazon and paying way less than the price of new Sabians.
 

Ptrick

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Wow, I’m surprised to hear this. Maybe it just betrays my ignorance...

On a semi-related note, does anyone have contact details for Paul (not his old Zildjian email, of course)? If so, can I get a PM?
He is on Instagram with the handle “cymbalcraftsman”
 

dtk

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I'm wearing a 'Zildjian...the only serious choice" T shirt today but with Paul missing and that new triple stack that looks like it was stolen directly from Agop (I think)...
I'm thinking...'Zildjian...seriously?' might be a better motto
 

David M Scott

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The initial dispute between Armand and Robert Zildjian, that saw Sabian emerge in the fallout, should have been laid to rest when both brothers passed. It may just be in the cards for the future of cousins Andy Zildjian and Craigie Zildjian to merge and become ZILBIAN!
Stranger things have happened but a lot of water has gone under the bridge and it's still tainted with bad blood between the Cousins. Andy said as Armand and Robert aged they started communicating again but it appears it was only brother to brother talk not business.
As Andy relates, when Zildjian found out Robert had cut a deal in advance with his father to buy AZCO Canada at a predetermined price Cragie was livid. So business does make strange bedfellows but with Sabian's
unique location skilled dedicated work force and costs and salaries in Canadian dollars but selling outside of Canada in U.S. dollars ... um.. A merger is a big gamble and then who going to be in charge ? Andy sure doesn't appear to be a follower !
 

Matched Gripper

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Read an Instagram post by an endorser who had left and gone to Sabian because of this. Said cutting Sarah and Paul loose was the key to his decision. Said No one at the company even contacted him and he had no clue who was the contact now.
Comments on that thread mentioned corporate decisions are now at the forefront. I cant imagine Armand would be happy. Might be this guy.

“Since joining the company as president at the beginning of 2017, John has already had a major impact on the development and execution of the roadmap for growing the family of brands including Zildjian, Vic Firth and Balter Mallets,” said Craigie Zildjian. “Equally important, John’s previous management and leadership experience with leading brands such as Gillette, Ocean Spray, and IdeaPaint, together with his interpersonal style have allowed him to quickly assimilate into our unique culture and the music industry.”

Doesn’t seem that making premier musical instruments is a high priority here.
 

David M Scott

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I have to disagree. When a new HH ride is $350-400 that puts their pricing right up there with all the others, at least depending on where you get them. I’ve been buying a lot of my new Turkish cymbals on Amazon and paying way less than the price of new Sabians.
Its pretty well the opposite in Canada as we deal in Canadian dollars for a Canadian made product. Someone in a post said I could go on ebay or Amazon and get a good deal on Turks. I'm guessing the writer was non Canadian. If you live in Canada and go Amazon.com it automatically switches you to Amazon.ca.
Then they convert the price to Canadian at a significant markup above the normal exchange rate. Very often the product in the US will include shipping whereas in Canada Amazon, ebay will show shipping prices to Canada that are hugely overinflated plus in some cases import duties and taxes to deliver to the door of our Igloos.
Last spring I wanted a Pearl
SR-015 snare throw off to restore a vintage snare. The cost in Canada was $79 but Pearl's Canadian distributor
didn't have one nor could they find one at a retailer.
And with Covid nothing was coming out of the orient. I found "one only" at Amazon. It came from an Ohio dealer.
They didn't normally ship to Canada (that's common with US based sellers) I called the store directly and they were most helpful. Their retail price was $64 U.S. and they accepted my credit card and even arranged the Canadian import general sales tax. It took 3 weeks to get to me and the landed cost was $120 Canadian.. So dear American posters and friends
please consider that pricing you see at home is not what people outside the U.S. have to pay.
 

Matched Gripper

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The non compete clause will probably force him to go overseas, Turkey perhaps. I'm sure the lawyers are hugging it all out as we really haven't heard a peep. Nobodys talking good bad or ugly. This is of course all speculation.
In some states, non-competes are limited by statute as to duration and geographic area.
 

BenjiDrums

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I get the appeal of Turkish cymbals, but I like that Zildjians are made in the USA.
I thought so too... but when labor is exponentially more expensive in America, hammering is optimized for time and not only for sound... that’s why all the other brands (Istanbul, Meinl) have HEAVY HEAVY hand hammered cymbals. Way cheaper in Turkey than in the US.
For me, I prefer those sounds because I proceeded, to my ears they sound like the records I grew loving that had Zildjians on them..
 

markkarj

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B8 is a great alloy. Look what paiste has done. Wish zildjian and Sabian would experiment with it. I do know you can send any Sabian cymbal into them and pay to have it customized.
I'm inclined to agree... I quite like my Paiste Giant Beats because they have such shimmer and a supple feel for B8 alloy cymbals. If I recall the Paiste Sound Alloy patent, they noted the reason for choosing B8 was basically economics.

When I wrote my feature for MD, the shared position of Zildjian and Sabian was pretty much that they had greater options with B20 than with B8. I don't think they had any interest in doing much more than entry-level cymbals with B8 alloy. I think Sabian has tried a little more with their B8 offerings... stuff like the APX and the Pro series, although neither line really did it for me.

The only company that really publicly embraced a multi-alloy approach was Meinl. When I spoke with Erik Paiste, he definitely was not promoting their use of multiple alloys. His message was that how they worked the metal mattered more than the actual metal used.
 

David M Scott

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I'm inclined to agree... I quite like my Paiste Giant Beats because they have such shimmer and a supple feel for B8 alloy cymbals. If I recall the Paiste Sound Alloy patent, they noted the reason for choosing B8 was basically economics.

When I wrote my feature for MD, the shared position of Zildjian and Sabian was pretty much that they had greater options with B20 than with B8. I don't think they had any interest in doing much more than entry-level cymbals with B8 alloy. I think Sabian has tried a little more with their B8 offerings... stuff like the APX and the Pro series, although neither line really did it for me.

The only company that really publicly embraced a multi-alloy approach was Meinl. When I spoke with Erik Paiste, he definitely was not promoting their use of multiple alloys. His message was that how they worked the metal mattered more than the actual metal used.
Andy Zildjian related on Drum History podcast how AZCO had a bad batch of what would be B20 Cymbals that they'd delivered to Zildjian and they were so bad they sent their truck back down and brought them back to Canada. That would be no doubt B20 so either the mix was bad from Zildjian as AZCO didn't have a forge or they weren't properly handled at AZCO.
There are a couple of instances in the podcast where other cymbal manufacturers are interviewed and they state categorically that how the metal was worked is most important regardless of it's composition.
 

bassanddrum84

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I'm inclined to agree... I quite like my Paiste Giant Beats because they have such shimmer and a supple feel for B8 alloy cymbals. If I recall the Paiste Sound Alloy patent, they noted the reason for choosing B8 was basically economics.

When I wrote my feature for MD, the shared position of Zildjian and Sabian was pretty much that they had greater options with B20 than with B8. I don't think they had any interest in doing much more than entry-level cymbals with B8 alloy. I think Sabian has tried a little more with their B8 offerings... stuff like the APX and the Pro series, although neither line really did it for me.

The only company that really publicly embraced a multi-alloy approach was Meinl. When I spoke with Erik Paiste, he definitely was not promoting their use of multiple alloys. His message was that how they worked the metal mattered more than the actual metal used.
I agree I think b8 is a untapped great allot for cymbals. Right now I love buying Sabian b8 for cheap and reworking them into something I like. So maybe no one less wanting further the b8 they will stay cheap. But I would sure love to see a zildjian b8 go through a process the kcon goes through. One can dream
 


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