Paul Francis left Zildjian?

David M Scott

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I agree I think b8 is a untapped great allot for cymbals. Right now I love buying Sabian b8 for cheap and reworking them into something I like. So maybe no one less wanting further the b8 they will stay cheap. But I would sure love to see a zildjian b8 go through a process the kcon goes through. One can dream
When you say "rework" what does that entail .. hand hammering, lathing, rivets..
just curious. Although I have and have had some classic Zilds and B20 higher end Sabians, there are a couple of B8s I wish i hadn't parted ways with as they played and sounded good as they were. Currently I use 2-14 inch B8X thin crash for my hi hat. I like the bright sound and definitive click they provide and the cost was just over $100 Canadian for the pair. I also had a set of B8 Pro Rock hats that were very good. But I play mainly Jazz and classic Blues now so sold them and stayed with the B8X thin crash for hats. I also have a Sabian 14 inch crash I bought new in 1984. It's not marked as being thin but it certainly is.
It sounds and looks like the Zil A's AZCO produced for Zil
USA and to be honest while it has lots of sound and sustain it's not to my ear the sound I like.. certainly not bright like B8's. Having been playing B8's from their introduction to today, I am always mystified that they were always categorized as an entry level product where I believe they were far better than that.
 

musiqman

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He released a small batch of prototypes that was an exact clone of the Old K’s.

I had a ride and a set of hats and wondered why they never saw the light.

Then thinking about it again... it would be massive damaging to the back the. Nist released Kerope line, and most likely the K/K Con line in general.
 

bassanddrum84

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When you say "rework" what does that entail .. hand hammering, lathing, rivets..
just curious. Although I have and have had some classic Zilds and B20 higher end Sabians, there are a couple of B8s I wish i hadn't parted ways with as they played and sounded good as they were. Currently I use 2-14 inch B8X thin crash for my hi hat. I like the bright sound and definitive click they provide and the cost was just over $100 Canadian for the pair. I also had a set of B8 Pro Rock hats that were very good. But I play mainly Jazz and classic Blues now so sold them and stayed with the B8X thin crash for hats. I also have a Sabian 14 inch crash I bought new in 1984. It's not marked as being thin but it certainly is.
It sounds and looks like the Zil A's AZCO produced for Zil
USA and to be honest while it has lots of sound and sustain it's not to my ear the sound I like.. certainly not bright like B8's. Having been playing B8's from their introduction to today, I am always mystified that they were always categorized as an entry level product where I believe they were far better than that.
Take for instance I recently bought 2 Sabian 18” b8 crash rides. I then put them on my lathe, shave some weight off (not super thin) and then I hammer. Sometimes I’ll quench them but lately just the and hammer. I use them love with my sweet ride and they sound pretty good together I stopped buying explained cymbals because no one in the crowd will ever notice the difference minus musicians will ask me what I use and they are shocked when I tell them.
 
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Northwoods Dan

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They all copy each other. When one company does something the others eventually catch up. Just wait zildjian and Sabian and paiste will have a “clap stack” just like the instanbul agop
Welp...you're 1 for 3 already and I wouldn't be surprised if the other two major cymbal companies aren't far behind. Zlidjian has now lost at least one endorser over it.
 

dustjacket

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Welp...you're 1 for 3 already and I wouldn't be surprised if the other two major cymbal companies aren't far behind. Zlidjian has now lost at least one endorser over it.
I’m thinking about how closely Paul worked with Nausbaum, Riley and Danziger to name a few.
 

Northwoods Dan

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As if other companies don’t “copy” (its still different than Istanbul’s model) things.

Everything has already been done anyway.
I don't disagree with that at all although there is always room for new innovations...so maybe I just agree with the first sentence. Best example I can think of is the LP Ice Bell which every company now has some version of...Same thing with the big vent holes in snare drums, etc. There are tons of examples.

What seems to be rubbing some people the wrong way is marketing it like it's an innovation that Zildjian came up with as opposed to a new version of a product made by another company that already exists.

I don't know much about it or the workings of cymbal companies to take a position on it. Just calling out that a.) yes, Zildjian came up with a clap stack as the poster predicted and b.) the marketing has cost them at least one endorser.
 

bassanddrum84

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Copying is a good thing tho not everyone is gonna like the og clap stack from agop and prefer insert favorite company. Zildjian just hasn’t been all that innovative in the recent years. Sure the special dry line and efx lines have grown but when was the last time that they came up with a new innovative thing? They ripped people off charging 300 for a raw blank with cracks and rough edges. They’re living off a name and I’ve been pro zildjian my whole life. And the last 6-7 years I’ve picked up all kinds of brands I won’t stay loyal to any brand. I own a lot of zildjian but I have a lot of everything and mix them all together.
 

musiqman

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Copying is a good thing tho not everyone is gonna like the og clap stack from agop and prefer insert favorite company. Zildjian just hasn’t been all that innovative in the recent years. Sure the special dry line and efx lines have grown but when was the last time that they came up with a new innovative thing? They ripped people off charging 300 for a raw blank with cracks and rough edges. They’re living off a name and I’ve been pro zildjian my whole life. And the last 6-7 years I’ve picked up all kinds of brands I won’t stay loyal to any brand. I own a lot of zildjian but I have a lot of everything and mix them all together.
I think they are still innovative.

This gets seen especially following Paul Francis and the Sound Lab line, but also the regular line, and Concept line.

They have released a tonne of chmbals that are indeed innovative.

Maybe all not for the older folks, but the younger cats especially.

But I am wondering how it will go now Paul is gone, which way this will head.
 

msgdob86

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What is your favorite cymbal maker to date? I do love my Zildjians, but I never buy them new anymore. I found out about Paul through an auto reply email, and never got word of why he is gone now.
 

cribbon

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... That 400 years of cymbal making? Not really. The Avedis in the US who started the company in the US wasn't even making cymbals when he opened the company. He was a businessman in another business altogether until the opportunity to capitalize on his family name was presented to him. The 400 years of cymbal making is marketing hype, not history.
The candy man can - make cymbals too!
 

BenjiDrums

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He released a small batch of prototypes that was an exact clone of the Old K’s.

I had a ride and a set of hats and wondered why they never saw the light.

Then thinking about it again... it would be massive damaging to the back the. Nist released Kerope line, and most likely the K/K Con line in general.
What were those called???
 

OZjazzer

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I never quite got the whole "Genuine Turkish Cymbals" tag. I mean, they are made in the USA by Armenians who left Turkey.
I managed to get myself into trouble over at the old CH because I thought that the whole ‘Genuine Turkish Cymbals made in the USA’ thing was ridiculous. A bit like Genuine Swiss Watches Made in Hong Kong. Nobody agreed. Mind you I thought the whole Keropes thing with the weird coating was pretty wacky too. (Well the one I owned didn’t win any friends.)
 

David M Scott

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I managed to get myself into trouble over at the old CH because I thought that the whole ‘Genuine Turkish Cymbals made in the USA’ thing was ridiculous. A bit like Genuine Swiss Watches Made in Hong Kong. Nobody agreed. Mind you I thought the whole Keropes thing with the weird coating was pretty wacky too. (Well the one I owned didn’t win any friends.)
Your 100% right ! I never got the whole K thing either especially because in the 70s
they were made in Canada by Kerope and his nephews.
I'm sure were not in Turkey so it would be easier if Zildjian stated the K is a
"Turkish style, type etc cymbal".. anything but "Genuine Turkish Cymbal"
Wine makers outside of the French province can't call their sparkling Champagne and lots more items are the same. I recently bought a Sabian HHX Legacy cymbal and it has the Turk sound. I'm sure this is the technique they learned from Kerope but they don't advertise it as
Turkish. As for "telling the truth and nothing but the
truth", your right up there with Greta Thunberg as like you she has many detractors
who can't acknowledge the truth even if it's biting their butt. Good on ya !
Cheers
 

CC Cirillo

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I’ve long suspected that Paul Francis just might be Estonian.

Ancestry.com.

But Estonians are not Armenian. Don’t let the “ian” fool you.
 

michaelg

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The "genuine turkish cymbals" vibe by Zildjian is cool with me.

Its kind of a nod to their lineage and ancestry, both culturally and genetically.

I do think of Zildjian as an American company with Turkish roots. Probably the biggest innovations towards modern cymbals happened in Turkey but that's no slight on the current Zildjian factory and all the amazing work they have done. Great to see such an old family run company still going.
 
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DamnSingerAlsoDrums

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No idea if this is relevant but what the heck,

Paiste is an Estonian surname.

Paiste first opened in Russia, moved to Estonia then Poland before settling in Switzerland.
I’ve long suspected that Paul Francis just might be Estonian.

Ancestry.com.

But Estonians are not Armenian. Don’t let the “ian” fool you.
....ian

....Paiste...

...Ian Paice playin' Paiste...

Pasty Ian Paice feistily playin' Paistes in a nasty but nice T.
Ian-Paice-3.jpg
 
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David M Scott

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No idea if this is relevant but what the heck,

Paiste is an Estonian surname.

Paiste first opened in Russia, moved to Estonia then Poland before settling in Switzerland.
Estonians have a dial use for cymbals. They are pl
No idea if this is relevant but what the heck,

Paiste is an Estonian surname.

Paiste first opened in Russia, moved to Estonia then Poland before settling in Switzerland.
Estonians make full use of cymbals at Weddings, and Bar Mitzvahs.. They are struck once then wine bottle corks are inserted in the bells and they double as dinner plates. Rumour has it Paiste moved to Switzerland hoping to capture that market. The Swiss however insist that the great Alpine Horn is the only legitimate instrument to be used for celebrations and found that the traditional Swiss celebration dinner of melted cheese and potatoes stuck horribly to the cymbals. Luckily for the Paiste's there was an Armenian community and they bought the cymbals to play to celebrate Mother in Law Funerals as in the ild country.
I have to sign off now as the van is here to take me back to the institution.
 


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