Paypal "gift option"

idrum4fun

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I know this has been a hotly debated topic! My last few sales through DFO have resulted in the buyer voluntarily sending a bit more to cover those fees, even though I never ask for it. I like to think that the majority of buyers are aware of the fees and make appropriate payment. When they do, it's greatly appreciated!

While eBay is one of the best ways to sell to a large audience, sometimes the cost of doing business with them isn't worth it!

-Mark
 

CaptainCrunch

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You can also add the 3% as a buyer and pay using regular paypal, and you are protected. The seller gets the total they want, and the buyer has protection, if they want. Simple enough.
This is how I have handled it when sellers have said they strongly prefer Friends'n'Family payment. If I want the thing, what do I care about an extra 10 bucks on my end to keep my shorts from getting run up the flagpole?

Of course, I've seen sellers who say "No F&F, No Deal", but I'm not interested in finding out why they insist on those terms even at no cost to them.
 

Spongebob

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With the rising costs of shipping, packing materials, gasoline, et al , 3% can cut into someone's profit. It may sound petty on a $30 item ($0.90) but on a sale of let's say $3000 ($90), then it becomes significant enough to both parties. Who wants to pay an extra $90 if you don't have to? Adversely, who's willing to forfeit $90 in profit? Heck, $90 could be the difference between profit, break even or loss.

But that's not the whole issue of this thread, which was already presented, addressed and laid to rest.
 

Spongebob

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Right is right.
Wrong is wrong.
There is no such thing as "situational ethics".
"You" are either on the correct path or "you" are not.
No amount of gesticulational reasoning will divert logic and reason from the equation. We all learned this as children.

Bottom line - it is ALWAYS up to an individual to do what is right.

Live with the man "you" choose to be. Either "you" choose to to do what is right or "you" don't. "Your" call.

... and for the record ... it ain't up to me to weigh in on "your" choice. "Your" life ... "Your" choices ... "Your" path. "Your" earned consequences - both good and bad.

so now I'm on the incorrect path and unethical? Wow!

And as long as we're quoting:
"Better a Humble Sinner than a Self-Righteous Saint"
 
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Spongebob

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I was born at night. Just that it wasn't last night so "you" can play cute with all the semantics "you" want for hypocrisy is the contrivance of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, while concealing real character or inclinations, especially with respect to religious and moral beliefs.

Not directed at any one specific person here. Merely a point of reference.
 

drawtheline55

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ok, let's not get crazy here. It is just a simple policy and I think it is the right one, but have said before, buyers and sellers can split the fee.
that would keep costs down and the buyer still has protection.
 

Rich K.

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I prefer that buyers use regular PayPal as the shipping discount you get is often more that the 3% fee.
 

Drumming-4-Life

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Without naming names, just another warning to avoid sellers who insist on the PayPal friends and family option, unless of course you know the seller personally, or already have an established business relationship with them. I encountered a DFO member who stopped replying to my e-mails once I mentioned that I would not use the friend and family option; this is a sure-enough sign to shop elsewhere. There is plenty of quality drum gear around... don't get burnt!
 

michiganice91

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@Drumming-4-Life

I recently attempted a sale on here and asked for a friends/family payment or zelle transfer. I don't do a lot of sales on DFO so I wasn't too clear on this subject. The buyer informed me that he wished to send as a payment for goods and I told him that was fine and to please add 2.9% for buyer protection (mind you this transaction was for a small amount so the buyer protection was about $3).

After my request he got upset and canceled the whole transaction without a reason.

My point is that it should be incumbent upon the BUYER to cover the costs for buyer protection if desired. At least for me, part of the reason I use DFO is to avoid buying and selling fees. As far as I know Paypal does not cover/protect sellers and from almost every case I've heard about with a paypal dispute where an item was purchased and shipped I have never heard of one single instance of Paypal siding with the seller in a dispute.
 

Mongrel

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@Drumming-4-Life

I recently attempted a sale on here and asked for a friends/family payment or zelle transfer. I don't do a lot of sales on DFO so I wasn't too clear on this subject. The buyer informed me that he wished to send as a payment for goods and I told him that was fine and to please add 2.9% for buyer protection (mind you this transaction was for a small amount so the buyer protection was about $3).

After my request he got upset and canceled the whole transaction without a reason.

My point is that it should be incumbent upon the BUYER to cover the costs for buyer protection if desired. At least for me, part of the reason I use DFO is to avoid buying and selling fees. As far as I know Paypal does not cover/protect sellers and from almost every case I've heard about with a paypal dispute where an item was purchased and shipped I have never heard of one single instance of Paypal siding with the seller in a dispute.
Agree that PayPal leans against the seller in favor of buyer.

But the idea that The buyer should pay for "protection" up front doesn't fly with me. You could always ask the buyer to pay it or split it behind the scene I guess, but "buyer pays fees" in a listing is just lame and I will walk on principal lol.

I am sending you "real" money in good faith before I even receive a potentially bogus, damaged, or misrepresented item, and you want ME to cover the risk?

Put the fee in your asking price if you want but use the proper method of payment and keep the transaction in the light where everyone can see it.
 

Drumming-4-Life

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@Drumming-4-Life

I recently attempted a sale on here and asked for a friends/family payment or zelle transfer. I don't do a lot of sales on DFO so I wasn't too clear on this subject. The buyer informed me that he wished to send as a payment for goods and I told him that was fine and to please add 2.9% for buyer protection (mind you this transaction was for a small amount so the buyer protection was about $3).

After my request he got upset and canceled the whole transaction without a reason.

My point is that it should be incumbent upon the BUYER to cover the costs for buyer protection if desired. At least for me, part of the reason I use DFO is to avoid buying and selling fees. As far as I know Paypal does not cover/protect sellers and from almost every case I've heard about with a paypal dispute where an item was purchased and shipped I have never heard of one single instance of Paypal siding with the seller in a dispute.
I understand you don't want to pay fees, but you see what happens... buyers are turned off by that. As a seller on eBay and Reverb, I pay fees when I sell on those sites. I'm not going to pay MY seller fees, AND pay fees as a buyer, just because a less experienced seller is not accustomed to the fees associated with doing business.

Now, if you have a dead-mint Brady block snare with the diecast badge, that you'll sell for a reasonable price, that's a different story :cool:

But seriously, if you're going to sell items other than locally, you should understand that there will be costs associated with doing business. To assume that you will have no costs attached to making a sale, stop being naive.
 

dustjacket

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I've said it before, just add the 3% into your asking price, when it gets deducted, you still end up what you were looking for.
Just wait until PayPal starts collecting taxes...It's around the corner.
 

michiganice91

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I understand you don't want to pay fees, but you see what happens... buyers are turned off by that. As a seller on eBay and Reverb, I pay fees when I sell on those sites. I'm not going to pay MY seller fees, AND pay fees as a buyer, just because a less experienced seller is not accustomed to the fees associated with doing business.

Now, if you have a dead-mint Brady block snare with the diecast badge, that you'll sell for a reasonable price, that's a different story :cool:

But seriously, if you're going to sell items other than locally, you should understand that there will be costs associated with doing business. To assume that you will have no costs attached to making a sale, stop being naive.

It seems like there's a big difference of opinion here. I haven't been conditioned to simply accept the fact that if I'm selling something used in a private sale involving shipping that I should always expect to pay some sort of fee to someone.

In fact most transactions in Europe take place with bank transfers and no third party payment entities.

I've done countless transactions with no fee based protection as both a buyer and a seller and have an issue maybe 1% of the time. I'd rather take my chances in that regard personally.
 

Mongrel

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It seems like there's a big difference of opinion here. I haven't been conditioned to simply accept the fact that if I'm selling something used in a private sale involving shipping that I should always expect to pay some sort of fee to someone.

In fact most transactions in Europe take place with bank transfers and no third party payment entities.

I've done countless transactions with no fee based protection as both a buyer and a seller and have an issue maybe 1% of the time. I'd rather take my chances in that regard personally.
But see...

You are not selling something "in a private setting". You are buying\selling in public-over the internet-most times to strangers who you have never met face-to-face. And, yes, friendships are an outgrowth of our relationships on social media like DFO. In those cases a few private messages will settle the "fee" issue and that is considered between "friends". But other transactions are not between friends, but between, say acquaintances. That becomes a different story in my opinion.

Now, you seem to think that you are paying a "fee" to the buyer. You are NOT paying a fee to the buyer-you are and always have been, when using PayPal, paying a fee to PAYPAL. They are collecting fees based on their cost of business in providing YOU a (relatively) painless way to receive funds from people all over the world. Yes, included in that is protection for the buyer-the person who sends you money UP FRONT on good faith before they even receive the item, which they only have the buyers word on is what it is. So it is a unique situation. Yes, PayPal, as we have all read, is biased towards the buyer. Not saying that is a good thing but it "is what it is" and part of using their service.

DFO maintains a strict "no friends and family" policy on PUBLIC ads for items. That is their prerogative, and smart on their part, because that is the law under PayPal. For DFO to allow or encourage "friends and family" options for sales on this site opens them up to all kind of headaches they shouldn't have to deal with.

Now, no one, as far as I know, is going through your private message folder and looking into whether or not you intend to falsify the payment options on your items. That is between you and the buyer\seller. There are also other ways to not take a hit on fees-just add it into the sale price up front. No harm, no foul. Want to split the fee? Send the buyer a PM and see what they think. At least the buyer is still covered. It doesn't happen here often, but it has happened, that a buyer gets taken in a public DFO sale. In those cases you can be darn sure the buyer is either happy they are covered or bummed out because they took a "friends and family" deal from a seller.

You do have other options in the form of money orders, bank transfers, or cash wiring services. Just put that in your listing up front and you don't have to worry about PayPal at all.

Happy that you, as I, have had great luck in buying our drum gear!

Take care.
 
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dustjacket

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But see...

You are not selling something "in a private setting". You are buying\selling in public-over the internet-most times to strangers who you have never met face-to-face. And, yes, friendships are an outgrowth of our relationships on social media like DFO. In those cases a few private messages will settle the "fee" issue and that is considered between "friends". But other transactions are not between friends, but between, say acquaintances. That becomes a different story in my opinion.

Now, you seem to think that you are paying a "fee" to the buyer. You are NOT paying a fee to the buyer-you are and always have been when using PayPal, paying a fee to PAYPAL. They are collecting fees based on their cost of business in providing YOU a (relatively) painless way to receive funds from people all over the world. Yes, included in that is protection for the buyer-the person who sends you money UP FRONT on good faith before they even receive the item, which they only have the buyers word on is what it is. So it is a unique situation. Yes, PayPal as we have all read. is biased towards the buyer. Not saying that is a good thing but it "is what it is" and part of using their service.

DFO maintains a strict "no friends and family" policy on PUBLIC ads for items. That is their perogative, and smart on their part, because that is the law under PayPal. For DFO to allow or encourage "friends and family" option for sales on this site opens them up to all kind of headaches they shouldn't have to deal with.

Now, no one, as far as I know, is going through your private message folder and looking into whether or not you intend to falsify the payment options on your items. That is between you and the buyer\seller. Their are also other ways to not take a hit on fees-just add it into the sale price up front. No harm, no foul. Want to split the fee? Send the buyer a PM and see what they think. At least the buyer is till covered. It doesn't happen here often, but it has happened, that a buyer gets taken in a public DFO sale. In those cases you can be darn sure the buyer is happy they are covered or bummed out because they took a "friends and family" deal from a seller.

You do have other options in the form of money orders, bank transfers, or cash wiring services. Just put that in your listing up front and you don't have to worry about PayPal at all.

Happy that you, as I, have had great luck in buying our drum gear!

Take care.
Well stated.
 

bongomania

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Also someone here said they felt it was the buyer’s responsibility to pay for buyers protection, so sellers shouldn’t have to pay; but if you just incorporate the fees into the selling price, then THE BUYER IS PAYING. If you offer at one price and then jack it up afterwards, by even a few bucks, that would turn anyone off. Just figure in the fees to the price you say you’ll sell for.
 

Drumming-4-Life

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I haven't been conditioned to simply accept the fact that if I'm selling something used in a private sale involving shipping that I should always expect to pay some sort of fee to someone.
You're not selling privately; you're on the Internet looking for buyers, because you can't sell your gear locally/privately. You also know if you took your gear to Guitar Center, Sam Ash, or a pawn shop, you'd get peanuts when you trade stuff in. You can try craigslist, but then that's a whole new world of potential good and bad "cans" (of worms) to open up.
 

michiganice91

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But see...

You are not selling something "in a private setting". You are buying\selling in public-over the internet-most times to strangers who you have never met face-to-face. And, yes, friendships are an outgrowth of our relationships on social media like DFO. In those cases a few private messages will settle the "fee" issue and that is considered between "friends". But other transactions are not between friends, but between, say acquaintances. That becomes a different story in my opinion.

Now, you seem to think that you are paying a "fee" to the buyer. You are NOT paying a fee to the buyer-you are and always have been, when using PayPal, paying a fee to PAYPAL. They are collecting fees based on their cost of business in providing YOU a (relatively) painless way to receive funds from people all over the world. Yes, included in that is protection for the buyer-the person who sends you money UP FRONT on good faith before they even receive the item, which they only have the buyers word on is what it is. So it is a unique situation. Yes, PayPal, as we have all read, is biased towards the buyer. Not saying that is a good thing but it "is what it is" and part of using their service.

DFO maintains a strict "no friends and family" policy on PUBLIC ads for items. That is their prerogative, and smart on their part, because that is the law under PayPal. For DFO to allow or encourage "friends and family" options for sales on this site opens them up to all kind of headaches they shouldn't have to deal with.

Now, no one, as far as I know, is going through your private message folder and looking into whether or not you intend to falsify the payment options on your items. That is between you and the buyer\seller. There are also other ways to not take a hit on fees-just add it into the sale price up front. No harm, no foul. Want to split the fee? Send the buyer a PM and see what they think. At least the buyer is still covered. It doesn't happen here often, but it has happened, that a buyer gets taken in a public DFO sale. In those cases you can be darn sure the buyer is either happy they are covered or bummed out because they took a "friends and family" deal from a seller.

You do have other options in the form of money orders, bank transfers, or cash wiring services. Just put that in your listing up front and you don't have to worry about PayPal at all.

Happy that you, as I, have had great luck in buying our drum gear!

Take care.
I think there's a bit of semantics being cherry picked here. First off let me say, I am NOT a newbie at any of this and I have bought and sold drum gear to and from dozens of different countries around the world using various payment methods. So I am well aware of just about all the options out there and how people are going through the buying/selling process around the world.

That being said, I never used the words "in a private setting", I merely pointed out that I am a PRIVATE SELLER meaning for sale by owner, no middle men, and I am not a business. Pretty much the only sale that occurs in a private setting is any unadvertised sale between those whom are already friends or acquaintances. Any other sale can be considered "in a public setting". I don't really see this of much relevance anyhow.

About the Paypal fees, I never ever said anything about paying a fee TO THE BUYER. I merely pointed out the fees are for buyer protection and therefore should be incumbent upon the buyer to cover that cost. Of course the fee goes to paypal, does anyone out there actually think they are paying money TO a buyer to sell them an item?!

I think if a seller has a proven track record, I.E. Reverb or Ebay feedback that is entirely positive, or proof of completed sales on facebook/PP etc, then a buyer should feel safe doing business with that individual.

I simply do not appreciate the "service" paypal provides enough to justify the cost of using them without question. I realize they do have some benefit and many people will use them because it's simple and easy, but as a seller who has strived to maintain an impeccable reputation I feel as though I personally have earned the right to be trusted upon proof of such record and therefore don't need to incur fees when selling goods as a private direct seller.

I'm sure there are plenty who agree and disagree with me and that's okay. I am not mad at anyone I am just trying to clarify my opinion, the way I prefer to do business online, and the way I believe Paypal fees should be taken into account when utilized.
 


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