Problem: Half Time Shuffle - Rosanna (TOTO)

beto_drummer

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Hello my friends!!!

Before I start the question, please, excuse me if this is not the appropiate area for posting this, I was thinking I could post it in Teachers, but I'm not sure.

So, I will go to the point:
I want to play this Rosanna Half Time Shuffle groove, and... I can play it... BUT
I'm strugglin with the part where you play an accented snare, followed by a ghost note. The latter it's not ok for me... playing slowly I can control it, but when I accelerate a bit... I hit it harder ( the second snare)

I will show you the drum sheet highlighting where is my problem:

Rosanna - toto.png


AND THE QUESTION IS:
Do you have some advice for me, to approach this?
Perhaps an exercise?
Something to improve that second stroke?
Sugestions?

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!

(I take the picture from a pdf file I found in the website: drumstheword).
 

John DeChristopher

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Practice. Then practice it some more. And practice is slowly. Don't attempt to play it at the actual tempo until you really have it under control. The half time shuffle is one of the many reasons Jeff was so great, so don't worry if you can't get it right away. Good luck and keep practicing.
 

beto_drummer

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Practice. Then practice it some more. And practice is slowly. Don't attempt to play it at the actual tempo until you really have it under control. The half time shuffle is one of the many reasons Jeff was so great, so don't worry if you can't get it right away. Good luck and keep practicing.
Hello John!!! Thank you for answering.
Yes, yes, I agree absolutely with you. But perhaps there was some exercise or tips / suggestions for... how can I say this...
To approach "ONLY" the problem... .... isolate the problem would be the word?

Thank you and I will try to keep practicing, now with metronome so I can follow progress. :blob6:
 

jaymandude

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Without seeing you play, the only thing I could suggest has to do with your grip.

You could try ( assuming you’re not doing this already) immediately relaxing your hand or grip after playing the backbeat. That’s second note is ghosted, it’s just a little tap after the fact. An afterthought.
Practice this on its own as well. A double, first stroke at regular volume then immediately relax. You don’t PLAY that second note, it just happens on its own.
 

Seb77

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Everybody's favorite groove!

The problem you are facing is inertia. The stick wants to bounce off high after any loud stroke. In order to play a soft beat after a loud one, the stick needs to be kept low after the loud one/before the oft one. This is called a down stroke, or stop stroke as some call it.
In this case, the quiet stroke follows very fast after the loud one, so you need to stop the bounce very abruptly.
Keep in mind the ghost notes don't always need to be "played", they might just happen. Same with this one, it's just a bounce stroke.

If you listen to the intro of Rosanna, you'll notice he doesn't play all the gostnotes all the time.
 

thejohnlec

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Practice flam exercises to get your hands accustomed to playing a flam stroke (which is the backbeat in the Rosanna groove) followed by a light stroke (the ghost note in the groove). Swiss Army Triplets are a great exercise for this. Practice them slowly to get it in your muscle memory, then gradually increase speed while relaxing and maintaining control. Be sure to alternate stickings in between flams as well as playing doubles in each hand in between flams:

F R L, F L R, F R R, F L L (played as triplets)

Insert random accents as well to challenge your hands. This exercise will cover the stickings in the Rosanna groove and will help build the coordination to follow up the backbeat stroke with the light ghost note. For an additional musical application, you can play along to Babylon Sisters by Steely Dan for a slower version of this groove. Enjoy!
 

Squirrel Man

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Practice an inverted paradiddle to get used to playing an accent on the first stroke of a double.
R r l r L l r l
This is what's helping me a lot. I'm finally getting shuffles down and sounding pretty good and transitioning in and out of them and that second ghost initially came off as a double but doing exercises like this has helped my left hand get off the double bounce thing. The one I do is l r r L l r l l R r
 

Cauldronics

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There's an exercise called Zap, Stroke, Tap, Lift that my drum teacher showed me long ago. It's designed to develop dynamics and there are many variations that can get your hands flowing when well-practiced. From here, try working on inverted paradiddles like mentioned above and you should already have the motion needed to do them well.

Zap: the stick starts from a 90 degree angle, hits the drum and comes back up to the 90 degree angle.

Stroke: 90 degree angle, hit the drum, leave the stick above the drum about 1 inch

Tap: 1 inch above the drum, tap the drum and come up to 1 inch above again

Lift: Tap the drum and lift the stick to the 90 degree angle

Repeat.
 

Seb77

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There's an exercise called Zap, Stroke, Tap, Lift that my drum teacher showed me long ago. It's designed to develop dynamics and there are many variations that can get your hands flowing when well-practiced. From here, try working on inverted paradiddles like mentioned above and you should already have the motion needed to do them well.

Zap: the stick starts from a 90 degree angle, hits the drum and comes back up to the 90 degree angle.

Stroke: 90 degree angle, hit the drum, leave the stick above the drum about 1 inch

Tap: 1 inch above the drum, tap the drum and come up to 1 inch above again

Lift: Tap the drum and lift the stick to the 90 degree angle

Repeat.
That's also know as full-down-tap-up (volume is f-f-p-p).
 

jaymandude

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There's an exercise called Zap, Stroke, Tap, Lift that my drum teacher showed me long ago. It's designed to develop dynamics and there are many variations that can get your hands flowing when well-practiced. From here, try working on inverted paradiddles like mentioned above and you should already have the motion needed to do them well.

Zap: the stick starts from a 90 degree angle, hits the drum and comes back up to the 90 degree angle.

Stroke: 90 degree angle, hit the drum, leave the stick above the drum about 1 inch

Tap: 1 inch above the drum, tap the drum and come up to 1 inch above again

Lift: Tap the drum and lift the stick to the 90 degree angle

Repeat.
That's a great exercise but I don't see the connection to Rosanna.
 

Cauldronics

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That's a great exercise but I don't see the connection to Rosanna.
The low stick height, low volume 2nd stroke of the double on the snare..... what the OP pointed out he was strugglin' with. If you get the dynamics down with the exercise at a range of tempos and sticking combinations (found on the net), it should be more easy to do Rosanna.
 

cplueard

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That's a great exercise but I don't see the connection to Rosanna.

The "stroke" followed by the "lift" is how to handle the quick accent to ghost. The "Zap" and "tap" act as a buffer to get it in the right motion. Wrist going down for the "stroke", light finger pull while moving the wrist up to make the "lift" and it's there. It wasn't with this exercise or terminology but that's how I was taught to do and accent followed by a ghost.
 

Cauldronics

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There's an exercise called Zap, Stroke, Tap, Lift that my drum teacher showed me long ago. It's designed to develop dynamics and there are many variations that can get your hands flowing when well-practiced. From here, try working on inverted paradiddles like mentioned above and you should already have the motion needed to do them well.

Zap: the stick starts from a 90 degree angle, hits the drum and comes back up to the 90 degree angle.

Stroke: 90 degree angle, hit the drum, leave the stick above the drum about 1 inch

Tap: 1 inch above the drum, tap the drum and come up to 1 inch above again

Lift: Tap the drum and lift the stick to the 90 degree angle

Repeat.
In a side note I found kind of hilarious, after I explained the exercise to a now former band member guitar player, he seemed to have a "Eureka!" reaction. Then he tried for about a half hour to adapt it to guitar technique and couldn't come up with anything. Just watching him try was well worth it. One of the Spinal Tap moments your band mates unintentionally offer up now and then.
 

jaymandude

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The low stick height, low volume 2nd stroke of the double on the snare..... what the OP pointed out he was strugglin' with. If you get the dynamics down with the exercise at a range of tempos and sticking combinations (found on the net), it should be more easy to do Rosanna.
Ok. That’s cool. I just don’t hear it like that. I hear them very close together. Not even a tap. Like I mentioned, an afterthought.

you know how when you pour wine, and there’s a few drops left on the top of the bottle ? You can’t plan that.

but I hear you
 

bellbrass

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Practice. Then practice it some more. And practice is slowly. Don't attempt to play it at the actual tempo until you really have it under control. The half time shuffle is one of the many reasons Jeff was so great, so don't worry if you can't get it right away. Good luck and keep practicing.
Yep. Remember that you are attempting to play what one of the best drummers to ever play has done....not an easy task. Start at slower tempos...I know I have difficulty with doing this, but it works every time.
 


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