Quantizing John Bonham

xsabers

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Man, I'm right on my game here, managed to upset the delicate feelings of both millennials AND Rick Beato's fanboys, lol.

I think a few of you missed my point by a light year here-- I said that music was better before the so called "digital revolution" wrecked it (as demonstrated in the video), I didn't say that no musician under 40 has any ability. Jerk those knees all you want, but at least make sure you get what I actually said in the first place.

As to Rick Beato just comb through some of his older stuff and listen to him drone on and on and on complaining about "the industry", dropping all kinds of names left and right, bragging about his academic connections and complaining away about how there will never be another tragic misunderstood angsty genius like Cobain. Read through the comments and watch him get so personally offended at any critical opinion that he actually resorts to flame wars and petty insults at complete strangers (some of them literal kids no less) if they question his pet opinions on anything. LMAO at the post above that said I was "intimidated" by the likes of that clown. Please. He's every burnout muso stereotype ever, topped off with a side of Eddie Trunk for good measure. All he needs is a beret and some Doc Martens on his feet. I must be intimidated at how unintentionally hilarious he is, because laughing this hard is a challenging ab workout.

That said however this video of his was right on. Even a stopped clock tells the time twice a day and all that.
There are many posts I've disagreed with in the past but few have topped this one. I've learned a lot from watching his videos and am entertained at the same time. He knows his stuff on every level.
 

cozy4ever

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There are many posts I've disagreed with in the past but few have topped this one. I've learned a lot from watching his videos and am entertained at the same time. He knows his stuff on every level.

Hey, what can I tell you? If you like him, by all means keep watching him. Different strokes.
 

jaymandude

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There's plenty of unquantized great drummers out there. Bonham wouldn't likely be quantized in 2019, the same way Steve Jordan and Jim Keltner aren't.
 

VintageUSA

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Anyway - for me, what Rick's talking about is for a symptom, not the disease itself.
As for Rick Beato being a blowhard....
Oh my - all I can say, if collecting up mountains of chops, knowledge, skills, talent and experience and being willing (and able) to share all of them so freely and openly and effectively makes one a blowhard, then may the world be blessed with as many such blowhards as the universe can muster up. But I get it - being confronted by someone who really really really knows their stuff that speaks their mind can be intimidating... Granted I don't agree with every conclusion that Rick has made, but a blowhard??? Sorry...
Thank you.
For those of us with a lifetime of performance and music theory education, Rick Beato's detailed analysis of a great recording makes it fun.
His enthusiasm is contagious.
 

cozy4ever

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Thank you.
For those of us with a lifetime of performance and music theory education, Rick Beato's detailed analysis of a great recording makes it fun.
His enthusiasm is contagious.

In other words, a nerd appeals to fellow nerds. Makes sense enough I guess.

a lifetime of performance and music theory education
isn't my thing, which is probably why I find types like Beato unbearably pretentious. To you he's a great teacher and colleague, to me he's a Youtube lolcow. Horses for courses eh?

I think we might as well agree to disagree though, as this thread is going too far off topic, and my first comment was simply meant to give a +1 to the guy for having called out robo-music, in a video that broke things down nice & neatly. It's valuable info, that's for sure.
 

blueshadow

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To me this is almost like the "Laurel" recording, of course once he's set it up and told you how bad it's going to sound of course it sounds bad. I'd rather have had it set up as listen to these two clips and decide which sounds better. I think most would still pick the original, but we hear too much with our emotions and preconceived notions. For instance I read all the comments before listening expecting to be awful sounding, yet to me it doesn't sound all that bad.
 

wolfereeno

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To me this is almost like the "Laurel" recording, of course once he's set it up and told you how bad it's going to sound of course it sounds bad. .... For instance I read all the comments before listening expecting to be awful sounding, yet to me it doesn't sound all that bad.
I have to agree. I didn't find it all that bad. And if I was engineering the song, I'd be happier if the drums lined up with the bass and guitars!

That said, I'm not always happy with how engineers have beatmapped my own parts. But sometimes it's welcome and I even do it to myself sometimes when I work on stuff for other people, esp when recording percussion parts (shakers, tambourine, etc.). I try to be mindful of when that makes sense. Or when I want to force a certain feel.

I don't know - good music gets made either way, it just doesn't get much exposure so you have to hunt for it.

BTW, someone mentioned listening to Little Steven's underground garage. I love that channel too and follow lots of those bands. Definition-wise that genre is all over the place. Its punk pop exotica blues and soul all mixed up. Old meets new.

If you want to hear the precursor/inspiration for Little Steven's channel, check out Bill Kelly on WFMU. He's been broadcasting that format for >30 years every Sunday without a single week off! And he does it for free. He could smell a quantized part in 3 powerchords!

 

cozy4ever

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It's not my concern you chose to remain uneducated.
For the other people here in the DFO community, try voicing your opinion without criticizing posts/members.

If it's not your concern then kindly quit responding to me, as I have already said that I am not interested in seeing this thread go any further off topic. I said nothing personally insulting to anyone here and I am not interested in flame wars with you. Have a nice life.
 

stuart s

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In other words, a nerd appeals to fellow nerds. Makes sense enough I guess.



isn't my thing, which is probably why I find types like Beato unbearably pretentious. To you he's a great teacher and colleague, to me he's a Youtube lolcow. Horses for courses eh?

I think we might as well agree to disagree though, as this thread is going too far off topic, and my first comment was simply meant to give a +1 to the guy for having called out robo-music, in a video that broke things down nice & neatly. It's valuable info, that's for sure.
No one is forced to watch his videos, I for one fine them incredibly entertaining and informative.
If you are calling him and some of us nerds, well thank you for the compliment.

But I wish he found some other Bonzo beats to demo, the ones he chose did not show the contrast as much.
 

cozy4ever

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Nothing wrong with being a nerd. But I'm not that type and that's probably why I find Beato & his crew so annoying.

He could have had a field day autotuning "Poor Tom" imo. The rebounds/ghosts would have driven the program berserk.
 

BennyK

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To me there's a difference between being uneducated and being uninformed .

We share the same alphabet , but agreeing to disagree has very little to do with the letters with which we choose to construct our words .
 
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Tornado

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"It's not that bad", some have said.

It's actually not bad at all. And that's the real tragedy of it. "Not bad" might be good enough, but it will never be great.
 

Carlos McSnurf

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"It's not that bad", some have said.

It's actually not bad at all. And that's the real tragedy of it. "Not bad" might be good enough, but it will never be great.
I would love to hear Rick running Plant through Auto Tune

...I have impression that auto tune has been in use in o2 arena performance though
 

Cauldronics

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I’m no Rick Beato by any means, but the tap tempo he performed to find the tempo of the first track was questionable by (quality) studio engineer standards. It wasn’t even close to 170bpm and since when did we start dividing quarter notes into 8th notes to find the tempo?

He could’ve done that simply to give beat detective more transients to seek out, but that can also be done after you’ve found the correct quarter note downbeats, and his sloppy tapping and guessing it was 170 wasn’t even remotely close. I think he was more interested in making his point than using the tool to make that point correctly.

The results would’ve been far different if he didn’t use beat detective like Jackson Pollack used paint.

While I’m not defending the idea that music is helped in any way by people quantizing the way Beato did above, it begs the question if most people are aware that quantizing can also be done creatively and improve the performance of even a stiff drummer.

Just have to wonder how many of you know that quantizing can be done to reverse the effect of poor feel and lack of dynamics.

The problem today isn’t that most drummers in the studio have great feel, dynamics and chops that are being ruined by quantizing. we’ve already mostly agreed that the quality of musicianship has decreased since the dawn of MTV and well before that.

The best example I can give is taking a Bonham track and copying his laid back pocket and dynamics to a track that has none of that going for it. This is done with countless well known drummers as an overlay to a poorly played track. It takes a lot more work than what happened in the video above, but the results can be impressive and fool the ear of probably most of us here.

Would I rather listen to and record a drummer who can play that way from the get go? Absolutely. 100%
 

jaymandude

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I’m no Rick Beato by any means, but the tap tempo he performed to find the tempo of the first track was questionable by (quality) studio engineer standards. It wasn’t even close to 170bpm and since when did we start dividing quarter notes into 8th notes to find the tempo?

He could’ve done that simply to give beat detective more transients to seek out, but that can also be done after you’ve found the correct quarter note downbeats, and his sloppy tapping and guessing it was 170 wasn’t even remotely close. I think he was more interested in making his point than using the tool to make that point correctly.

The results would’ve been far different if he didn’t use beat detective like Jackson Pollack used paint.

While I’m not defending the idea that music is helped in any way by people quantizing the way Beato did above, it begs the question if most people are aware that quantizing can also be done creatively and improve the performance of even a stiff drummer.

Just have to wonder how many of you know that quantizing can be done to reverse the effect of poor feel and lack of dynamics.

The problem today isn’t that most drummers in the studio have great feel, dynamics and chops that are being ruined by quantizing. we’ve already mostly agreed that the quality of musicianship has decreased since the dawn of MTV and well before that.

The best example I can give is taking a Bonham track and copying his laid back pocket and dynamics to a track that has none of that going for it. This is done with countless well known drummers as an overlay to a poorly played track. It takes a lot more work than what happened in the video above, but the results can be impressive and fool the ear of probably most of us here.

Would I rather listen to and record a drummer who can play that way from the get go? Absolutely. 100%
yep.. that 8th note mapping made the whole thing questionable to me. As if the original premise wasn't ridiculous enough
 
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