Question about 'quintuplets'

bolweevil

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Quick question: is rlrll sticking called a quintuplet if it's not 'five played across the same space as four'? As in the rlrll rlrll rlrlrl sticking. If not, what is it called? Just wondering--been really into this sticking lately; I know it doesn't really matter what it's called...
 

Seb77

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If the rhythm/speed is 16ths (four per quarter note) you could say "16th notes in groups of five", or "five-note groupings of 16ths". If it's 8th notes, then "8th notes in groups of five" etc.
I prefer saying "strokes" or "sounds" instead of "notes" (since the music is not always written out, notated) but it seems a convention.
Some people use the phrase "five over four", but this might get misunderstood.
 

cworrick

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RLRLR Is a single stroke roll.
RLRRL is a paradiddle with an extra tap.
LRLLR is the same thing.
RRLLR. or LLRRL is commonly known as a 5 stroke roll but the doubles do not have to be bounced.
RRRLL or RRLLL are commonly called egg beaters
RLLLL or LRRRR or even RRRRR & LLLLL are called showing off.

All stickings are groups of 5 and can be used to play quintuplets. The sticking doesn't matter nor does it make the quintuplet.

A quintuplet is a group of 5 evenly spaced notes over a given pulse in the music. Commonly it is a group of 5 notes over the space of 1 beat. However it could also be 5 notes over the space of 2 beats. If you have the chops, you could do a quint over the space of an 8th note (and something else for the other 8th note)
 

Hop

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...If not, what is it called? ….
The broad category is called 'odd note groups.' It refers to the internal structure of a set or sets of contiguous notes (if the notes are broken then an argument can be made for them being a rudiment, ruff or roll format). Obviously the most common groups are reciprocals of 2 or 3, whereas odd note groupings are reciprocals of 2 and 3 (don't forget the remainder! just when ya thought you'd never use that pesky math).

The example you provided would let us quickly see a 4/4 sixteenth note arrangement of 5+5+6 (which can be broken down even further to (2+3) + (2+3) + (3+3) [or 2+2+2]).
Odd note groupings can be a really slick way of making your fills more interesting and fun and almost endlessly challenging especially when combined with foot substitutions or carried over the bar line.
 

bolweevil

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5+5+6 makes sense. Found some youtube videos about it. Turns out I've been doing a lot of RlRll RlRll Rlrrll stuff already in some 'wannabe Latin' patterns with the right hand on the bell of the ride. It's translating nicely to fills with the left hand on the snare and the right moving around the toms.

I was watching a video of myself from about 8 years ago and I was doing a lot of the 'initial 5' stuff (RlRll) but repeating it and not knowing how to resolve within 4/4 time. It's nice to see that being older (wiser?) I was able to start it up again and also find the '1' when I was done.
 

Hop

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5+5+6 makes sense. Found some youtube videos about it. Turns out I've been doing a lot of RlRll RlRll Rlrrll stuff already in some 'wannabe Latin' patterns with the right hand on the bell of the ride. It's translating nicely to fills with the left hand on the snare and the right moving around the toms.

I was watching a video of myself from about 8 years ago and I was doing a lot of the 'initial 5' stuff (RlRll) but repeating it and not knowing how to resolve within 4/4 time. It's nice to see that being older (wiser?) I was able to start it up again and also find the '1' when I was done.
Excellent!!! These odd note groups are so much fun to play and a great way to put some differentiation between the far more common 2 or 4 subdivisions.
If you're interested in exploring these in greater detail check out some of the content by Rick Gratton. His early content on VHS and one page pamphlet is a great foundation and his latest book version expands that concept nicely. He promoted at first, working with the framework of a measure of 4/4 in 16th's using a set of giving stickings/foot combos. You were later encourage to expand with your own combos of groupings. The key is to just do a bit of math where you "factor" the 16 notes out --> 5+5+5+1, 9+7, 3+5+3+5.... etc. The bigger numbers can be factored down further 5 = (2+3 or 3+2), 7 = (4+3 or 3+4 or 2+2+3 or 2+3+2 or 3+2+2), etc... One of the keys is to make a fixed formula of what your "5" or "3" or "7" will be to get the concept down, then start making a variety of arrangements for your "5" or "3" or "7."
With a little practice you'll be making these up on the fly and always knowing where that "1" is.

Rick's Licks book link: https://prodrumshop.com/ricks-licks/

Here's an example of Rick's Licks #2 being played with some variation on the orchestration of the basic pattern:



Here's the vid of Carmine Appice applying the technique:

 

TRstix

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The quintuplet is a non-standard subdivision. Notes that are not modified - let’s call them regular notes as opposed to dotted notes, which I would call a modified note - are subdivided by powers of two. This is sometimes referred to as douple or binary division. Standard subdivisions are equal divisions of two, four, eight, sixteen, and so on. The standard subdivision of a quarter note, for example, is into two eighths, four sixteenths, and eight 32nds. However, it can be subdivided into any number of equally spaced notes. The key here is “equally spaced” notes. If a quarter is subdivided into an eighth and two sixteenths, it has been divided into three notes, but not three equally spaced notes. To subdivided it into three equally spaced notes, you would create a triplet, an eighth note triplet. Since that isn’t a standard subdivision, it has to be notated as such by placing the number 3 over the grouping. (Sometimes the three notes are also bracketed together for clarification.)

If you divided the quarter into five equally spaced notes, which would be 5 sixteenth notes, you would have a quintuplet, and again, you would have to notate it as such by placing a 5 over the group. If you subdivide it into six and seven equally spaced notes, you would have a sextuplet and a septuplet. And again you would have to notate it. If you subdivide it into eight equally spaced notes, you would have new notes, 8 thirtysecond notes. Since that’s a standard subdivision, you don’t put an 8 over the group.

Simply grouping notes by emphasis, sticking, or some other way does not make that group a quintuplet, triplet or other “tuplet.” If you’re playing a measure of 4/4 and play 16 sixteenths and group them as 5,5,6 the fives and sixes are not quintuplets or sextuplets, they are just groupings. The key is the subdivision. You still have the standard subdivision of four sixteenths per quarter. You could subdivide the first three quarters into two sixteenth quintuplets and a sixteenth sextuplet, which would leave you with one more beat to deal with, but that is very different than the 5,5,6 mentioned above.

Modified notes also have a standard subdivision. The dotted quarter is subdivided into three eights. Since that is the standard subdivision, those three eighths are not a triplet, and thus aren’t notated with the 3 above the group. But if you want to subdivide the dotted quarter into two eights, a non-standard subdivision, you would create a douplet - two eights that have to be notated with a 2 over the group. The number over the group alerts and clarifies for the reader that that non-standard grouping isn’t a mistake.
 

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