Radio King Help!

[michaellasaponara]

Hello all!

I'm looking for some guidance on a Radio King snare purchase. I have 2 options, a 6x14 10 lug 1930s or a 7x14 8 lug late 40s. I've never seen a 30's one like this in this finish. I can't tell if it's a rewrap in Leedy black onyx Pearl or original. The 40s one is straight ahead, just needs to be cleaned up. Here are some pics. Red mufflers are the 30s one. Obviously I have to hear how they sound but I'm leaning towards the 40's one that looks original. Any thoughts are appreciated!

Sincerely,
Mikey

 

[Tama CW]

The 10 lug 1930's drum is not a Radio King. Probably an Artist 10 - tube lug design that ran up to 1938. Probably a re-wrap as I don't recognize that finish.
I would prefer the late 1940's Radio King in BDP. From those 3 photos it looks to be a correct drum - right colored mufflers, right throw off. My only comment on that
one is that most (or all) of them came equipped with the 16" extended wires attached with metal tabs on each. One single hole in the front slider flange of the strainer.
A lot of those have had extra holes drilled in the flanges.

 

[Whitten]

Collecting aside (as I have no experience in that) if you are going to play the drum there are many variables to consider. Radio Kings vary in quality quite a bit. Do drum heads fit? My 1940's RK, that looked very similar to the one in your picture, developed many cracks in the inferior metal lugs. I had to replace them all with reproductions.
If you aren't just collecting a nice looking drum, but want to play it, I would advise trying it first in person.

 

[michaellasaponara]

Collecting aside (as I have no experience in that) if you are going to play the drum there are many variables to consider. Radio Kings vary in quality quite a bit. Do drum heads fit? My 1940's RK, that looked very similar to the one in your picture, developed many cracks in the inferior metal lugs. I had to replace them all with reproductions.
If you aren't just collecting a nice looking drum, but want to play it, I would advise trying it first in person.

 

[michaellasaponara]

Thank you guys for the info, that knowledge helps so much! I was going to use it in my recording studio. It doesn't look barreled but I'm concerned about that. Can I add larger washers to the interior to help prevent that?

 

[rikkrebs]

The 10 lug 1930's drum is not a Radio King. Probably an Artist 10 - tube lug design that ran up to 1938. Probably a re-wrap as I don't recognize that finish.
I would prefer the late 1940's Radio King in BDP. From those 3 photos it looks to be a correct drum - right colored mufflers, right throw off. My only comment on that
one is that most (or all) of them came equipped with the 16" extended wires attached with metal tabs on each. One single hole in the front slider flange of the strainer.
A lot of those have had extra holes drilled in the flanges.

Good Information^^^^^
I agree the tube lug drum looks like it could be a re-wrap. Personally I prefer the tube lug drum, but I'm a big fan of quirky, one off, drums.

 

[Whitten]

Thank you guys for the info, that knowledge helps so much! I was going to use it in my recording studio. It doesn't look barreled but I'm concerned about that. Can I add larger washers to the interior to help prevent that?

I'm not sure if you were replying to me or what you mean?
The drums were made in the real calfskin era, so they didn't always adhere to the strict inches diameter (as far as I understand it, could be wrong).
My 40's RK was a little oversized. It made head choice problematic. You can get (oversized) vintage heads, but even then I had to force the head on and tensioning it wasn't easy.
There are a ton of vintage RKs being used successfully in studios, so I think it's a case of trying it in person, and/or asking a lot of questions.

 

[michaellasaponara]

I'm not sure if you were replying to me or what you mean?
The drums were made in the real calfskin era, so they didn't always adhere to the strict inches diameter (as far as I understand it, could be wrong).
My 40's RK was a little oversized. It made head choice problematic. You can get (oversized) vintage heads, but even then I had to force the head on and tensioning it wasn't easy.
There are a ton of vintage RKs being used successfully in studios, so I think it's a case of trying it in person, and/or asking a lot of questions.

I was replying to you.....I just mean when the split lugs are tensioned higher, they pull the shell in at the top and bottom, cracking the wood/wrap....just wondering if there's a way to help prevent the shell from doing that, as I like to tension a bit higher!

 

[Whitten]

My wood was fine, as was the wrap. The lugs fell apart over time. I was led to believe this is because they had to use poorer quality metal in the war period (?). You can easily buy repro sets, so that tells me it is a common problem.

 

[michaellasaponara]

My wood was fine, as was the wrap. The lugs fell apart over time. I was led to believe this is because they had to use poorer quality metal in the war period (?). You can easily buy repro sets, so that tells me it is a common problem.

That makes sense, may have to invest in these if they are damaged!

 

[Whitten]

Personally I would choose a different drum. There are a lot of RKs usually available and many of them are fantastic drums.

 

[michaellasaponara]

Personally I would choose a different drum. There are a lot of RKs usually available and many of them are fantastic drums.

I appreciate that! I'm gonna go look at it tomorrow and see if heads fit on there and the condition .

 

[Tama CW]

The small beaver tail lugs used from 1940 to 1954 (even considering the redesign in 1947) do have a habit of cracking under high tension for prolonged periods.
So your late 40's oval badge with beaver tail lugs is a better choice of lug integrity than pre-1947. The larger stream-lined lugs used on the smaller depth shells don't
seem to crack as often....but are far from bullet-proof. Since they make repro beaver tails you always have that option.

I've never had an issue with a Remo Classic head fitting on the 4 early Radio Kings I've had. And one of them was ovaled out to 1/4" out of round on one side. Those heads should
easily handle 1/8" variations. The RK heads when round do tend to be right around 14.0 inches. And the Remo Classic fit heads advertise to be 14.125" wide. Though I've found even those
aren't perfectly round and can be rotated around to place the widest part of the Classic Fit head (14.2 to 14.25") to the widest part of the shell.

For studio use under high tension it might be best to find a drum already beefed up with modern/rugged parts to take that strain. The tone from the larger depth shells of 7-8" is noticeably
deeper (ie thuddier or muddier) than the ones out of the 5.5" shells.....at least when tuned to moderate levels. I've never cranked any of my RK's really tight so I really don't know how they
sound and respond up there.

 

[gkrk]

Those small beavertail lugs look like they might be the older ones despite the late-'40s badge. I have a very similar drum with a cloud badge and switched out the lugs for reproductions, using the original lug nuts. Needed to get new mounting screws & washers (metric, I think). The drum sounds "better" having done this, more focused, and I'm not concerned about a lug fully cracking now.

The Remo Classic heads are somewhat oversized, but I've found they have a narrower "flesh" hoop that the old counter hoops don't get enough purchase. This can make tuning the drum something of a project. I just force a head on enough that I can then tighten it down to the bearing edge; after that tuning works well.

I like that older "Professional" with the tube lugs even though the finish looks post-factory. But that might be quite an old rewrap. Those older shells sound really good.

 

[Tama CW]

I enlarged the main photo and I'm pretty sure I see the steps that are the hallmark of the 1947 and later lugs. At least the top 2 appear correct. Others I cannot see.

 

[gkrk]

I enlarged the main photo and I'm pretty sure I see the steps that are the hallmark of the 1947 and later lugs. At least the top 2 appear correct. Others I cannot see.

Yes, I see what you mean. Missed that "step" on first view. But kind of hard to tell, and as you suggest they might not all be the '47 and later lugs.

 

[Redfern]

I was replying to you.....I just mean when the split lugs are tensioned higher, they pull the shell in at the top and bottom, cracking the wood/wrap....just wondering if there's a way to help prevent the shell from doing that, as I like to tension a bit higher!

Those older RKs have their own idea of proper tension as well. You’ll likely not be able to crank it up to modern high tension standards. Parts will fail. Plus, that’s not what these drums are about. If you want to crank a drum up that high, you’re losing every bit of what the old RKs are about. I’d just buy a new deeper snare.

 

[michaellasaponara]

Those older RKs have their own idea of proper tension as well. You’ll likely not be able to crank it up to modern high tension standards. Parts will fail. Plus, that’s not what these drums are about. If you want to crank a drum up that high, you’re losing every bit of what the old RKs are about. I’d just buy a new deeper snare.

I will attach a video shortly. I am happy with the tension it is at. Took a bit to really get to "know" this drum and what the limitations truly are but, for me, this is where it sounds great!

 

[michaellasaponara]

 

[Rich K.]

The 10 lug 1930's drum is not a Radio King. Probably an Artist 10 - tube lug design that ran up to 1938. Probably a re-wrap as I don't recognize that finish.
I would prefer the late 1940's Radio King in BDP. From those 3 photos it looks to be a correct drum - right colored mufflers, right throw off. My only comment on that
one is that most (or all) of them came equipped with the 16" extended wires attached with metal tabs on each. One single hole in the front slider flange of the strainer.
A lot of those have had extra holes drilled in the flanges.

That's Leedy's black onyx. Guessing the wrap was harvested from a bass drum.