DamnSingerAlsoDrums
DFO Veteran
They look fantastic!
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Re-wrap & restoration of 1968 Rogers R-380 drumset (Yamaha made)
- Thread starter antiquemusic
- Start date
TheDrummerFromAmsterdam
DFO Master
Just to add, according to Yamaha they never made any Roger drums, I also never saw anything pointing that direction myself.
The only mentioning I know of, is this always returning book info from Rob Cook.
They did owned the rights between 2006 and 2013.
They were also Japanese distributor between 1974 and 1975 (they also handled Ludwig, Evans, and Zildjian)
Other then that there is no mention or knowledge beside the book.
The only mentioning I know of, is this always returning book info from Rob Cook.
They did owned the rights between 2006 and 2013.
They were also Japanese distributor between 1974 and 1975 (they also handled Ludwig, Evans, and Zildjian)
Other then that there is no mention or knowledge beside the book.
Those look fantastic, that hot pink is itching for to be played in a hot rockabilly or surf band!
I personally would add the bass hoop strips. Maybe cut one and Scotch tape in on & see how you like it?
Drum Mer - The R360 & R380 drums were definitely made by the Yamaha company. Whether that was in a Yamaha factory or from the Sakae factory, I don't know, but definitely subcontracted by Rogers to the Yamaha company.
I personally would add the bass hoop strips. Maybe cut one and Scotch tape in on & see how you like it?
Drum Mer - The R360 & R380 drums were definitely made by the Yamaha company. Whether that was in a Yamaha factory or from the Sakae factory, I don't know, but definitely subcontracted by Rogers to the Yamaha company.
TheDrummerFromAmsterdam
DFO Master
Even the top brass at Yamaha in Japan says this isn‘t the case.
Back in those days there only was the Sakae factory.
And Yamaha only did the distribution in Japan for those 2 years, the sets that were made in the US.
Here is a scan from one of the catalogs in 1974.
But if you have any hard evidence like contracts or catalogs where its is stated that they are indeed made in Japan I would love to see it and be proven weong for the sake of drum history.
Geardaddy
Very well Known Member
The drums look fantastic! And I'm sure they will also sound great. Having owned a couple of first run R-360/R-380 Rogers kits in the past as well as "Y" badge Yamaha kits I can tell you that the shells were definitely built by Yamaha. Anyone that has compared the two kits side by side could tell. They are identical right down to the greenish grey paint on the interior. What the business arrangement was between Rogers and Yamaha at that time may be unknown, but the drums themselves show the proof.
TheDrummerFromAmsterdam
DFO Master
I have seen more drums that looked like the C and D series kits including the internal paint.
That unfortunately is no hard evidence.
As long as Yamaha says they didn't made them for Rogers, and there is no proof in writing/print this is the only thing that counts unfrotunately.
If your gonna go Pink : Go HOT or don’t bother !!!
Well done !!
Well done !!
Tell me you still have that old blue wrap....and for sale!!!
Geardaddy
Very well Known Member
Your statement isn't valid. You have offered no proof, in writing or any other form, that Yamaha (or Sakae) DIDN'T manufacture the drums for Rogers. You have only offered your personal opinion that the "top brass at Yamaha in Japan says this isn‘t the case". Your evidence is hearsay at best.
Did Rogers have a 60's MIJ kit ever ?
The local GC in Totawa NJ has what looks to me a Japanese stencil kit they have listed as a Rogers kit for $500. The only thing on them that slightly reminds me of Rogers is the grey painted interiors. The lugs are unlike any Rogers or MIJ kit I have ever seen. {Kit has a rail consolette so I am...
www.drumforum.org
Rogers 60s R380 kit.
I recently re-acquired a 60s Rogers R380 drum set in a beautiful red finish. These drums absolutely sing. So much so that they have become my primary kit. The research I’ve done is inconclusive as far as who manufactured these drums as well as the shell composition. Most agree that Yamaha built...
www.drumforum.org
Please provide the name or names of the Yamaha brass that told you they did not make the R360/R380 drums for Rogers to import to the states.
Because if this is true, it would change a whole hell of a lot of tribal knowledge that people a lot closer to Rogers and their history that I am would be very interested.
The R360/R380 were definitely imported by Rogers USA. They were not made or even assembled in the USA.
Are you referencing the 1980's Taiwan-made R360/R380 drums?
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TheDrummerFromAmsterdam
DFO Master
I'm affiliated with Yamaha for a long time, that should be enough validation.
I wouldn't say this if it wasn't true or if I didn't trust the words of the global management (where I asked this, as Yamaha Drums' history is the biggest part of my work).
As such it is not my opinion (only) but a shared opinion by Yamaha, and for me as such a fact as long as it won't get rebuted.
Links of other opinions (not facts by people working for either Yamaha or Rogers back then, or documents) are interesting but not valid for the sake of history.
Did Rogers have a 60's MIJ kit ever ?
The local GC in Totawa NJ has what looks to me a Japanese stencil kit they have listed as a Rogers kit for $500. The only thing on them that slightly reminds me of Rogers is the grey painted interiors. The lugs are unlike any Rogers or MIJ kit I have ever seen. {Kit has a rail consolette so I am...
Rogers 60s R380 kit.
I recently re-acquired a 60s Rogers R380 drum set in a beautiful red finish. These drums absolutely sing. So much so that they have become my primary kit. The research I’ve done is inconclusive as far as who manufactured these drums as well as the shell composition. Most agree that Yamaha built...
Please provide the name or names of the Yamaha brass that told you they did not make the R360/R380 drums for Rogers to import to the states.
Because if this is true, it would change a whole hell of a lot of tribal knowledge that people a lot closer to Rogers and their history that I am would be very interested.
The R360/R380 were definitely imported by Rogers USA. They were not made or even assembled in the USA.
Are you referencing the 1980's Taiwan-made R360/R380 drums?
Unfortunately as someone who works for a company, I can't give out names publicly.
Anyone is free to contact Yamaha Drums in the US, Europe, or even Japan though.
I was talking about all Rogers drums that have been supposedly said, made by Yamaha before they owned the rights in 2006 (that is why I referenced the 1974 -1975 period for instance).
If Yamaha did made drums for Rogers I would love to see the proof of that, so Yamaha (and the archive I maintain for them) and ofcourse tribal knowledge, can be updated.
Just for the sake of proper Yamaha and Rogers history.
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antiquemusic
Active Member
"Just to add, according to Yamaha they never made any Roger drums, I also never saw anything pointing that direction myself"
= these drums themselves bear witness that they are the same shells, rims, bass drum spurs, and tom attachment hardware as Yamaha drums of that same early era. The tom attachment hardware is EXACTLY the same as Rogers R-380 kit being sold by very well known vintage drum experts Steve Maxwell Drums and the angled laminate shells with gray interior paint and bearing edges are EXACTLY the same as Yamaha drums that era. The "Made In Japan" small black on gold sticker that was on each tom I started with (that I removed) is EXACTLY the same as sticker that came on Yamaha drums of that same era, same muffler assemblies as Yamaha drums same era, and last but not least, the dark blue diamond pearl blue wrap on these drums I started with is EXACTLY the same wrap as seen on Yamaha drums that era and was shown in Yamaha catalogs that era.
Respectfully, these Rogers R-380 drums I re-wrapped and restored (resto-mod really) were 100% made in same factory on same machines with same materials as Yamaha drums of late 1960's. I am fairly certain there is nobody left at Yamaha Drums today who was also there 55 years ago so their testimony is not firsthand eyewitness. Certainly I can imagine all traces of paperwork relating to the business relationship between Henry Grossman at Rogers and the Yamaha drums people is likely long gone lost to history BUT once again, the drums themselves bear witness that they are identical shells, wraps, hoops, tension rods, muffler assemblies (lugs were different obviously)
for reference, watch this Youtube video of a set of late 1960's Rogers R-380 drums with matching wrap Yamaha snare same era and notice the rack tom attachment hardware is EXACTLY the same as what came on my bass drum although the base was replaced by a later Big R base but the tom arm tower was same as were the spade mount plate on my rack tom which I left off and did not re-install...lastly notice that the muffler tone control on the matching Yamaha snare is EXACTLY same as the tone controls on the Rogers R-380 drums in the following video all of which are the same as the Rogers R-380 drums I resto-mod restored
happy holidays to you all
= these drums themselves bear witness that they are the same shells, rims, bass drum spurs, and tom attachment hardware as Yamaha drums of that same early era. The tom attachment hardware is EXACTLY the same as Rogers R-380 kit being sold by very well known vintage drum experts Steve Maxwell Drums and the angled laminate shells with gray interior paint and bearing edges are EXACTLY the same as Yamaha drums that era. The "Made In Japan" small black on gold sticker that was on each tom I started with (that I removed) is EXACTLY the same as sticker that came on Yamaha drums of that same era, same muffler assemblies as Yamaha drums same era, and last but not least, the dark blue diamond pearl blue wrap on these drums I started with is EXACTLY the same wrap as seen on Yamaha drums that era and was shown in Yamaha catalogs that era.
Respectfully, these Rogers R-380 drums I re-wrapped and restored (resto-mod really) were 100% made in same factory on same machines with same materials as Yamaha drums of late 1960's. I am fairly certain there is nobody left at Yamaha Drums today who was also there 55 years ago so their testimony is not firsthand eyewitness. Certainly I can imagine all traces of paperwork relating to the business relationship between Henry Grossman at Rogers and the Yamaha drums people is likely long gone lost to history BUT once again, the drums themselves bear witness that they are identical shells, wraps, hoops, tension rods, muffler assemblies (lugs were different obviously)
for reference, watch this Youtube video of a set of late 1960's Rogers R-380 drums with matching wrap Yamaha snare same era and notice the rack tom attachment hardware is EXACTLY the same as what came on my bass drum although the base was replaced by a later Big R base but the tom arm tower was same as were the spade mount plate on my rack tom which I left off and did not re-install...lastly notice that the muffler tone control on the matching Yamaha snare is EXACTLY same as the tone controls on the Rogers R-380 drums in the following video all of which are the same as the Rogers R-380 drums I resto-mod restored
happy holidays to you all
Attachments
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TheDrummerFromAmsterdam
DFO Master
Thank you for your elaborate reply.
To say there is no one alive is simply not true, as there are old collegues in Japan, more then alive from that era, and even younger ones that still know the history from the 50’s and 60’s.
Just from looking at those pictures/your EXACTLY (no need to shout) mentionings, I can see already a few things that are different than any Yamaha kit made in the 50’s/60’s and early 70’s (besides being the Yamaha historican and thus maintaining/owning most catalogs and info from even before 1967, I have owned and played many).
Namely the Tom holder, bd bracket, and the bd legs/bd leg mounts.
I can’t speak for the mufflers as I don’t see them in your post.
There also never were any stickers on Yamaha’s (made in japan was branded in hardware) as the badges already had branded in Made In Japan words themselves.
Yamaha only had a Blue Willow wrap (and for one year, Blue Pine too). Was that what you meant with Blue Diamond Pearl?
Grey interiors was something that other companies did too btw.
Of course Gretsch with the silver sealer, Pearl, and others I can’t remember the name, but have seen them on stencil kit snares in the past.
Another fun fact: some of Yamaha’s interiors had a bit of green teint in them instead of being fully grey.
Now, if someone feel the urge to name these made by Yamaha. Feel free.
Im just here for historical inaccuracy, and that is why im so privy on this matter.
To say there is no one alive is simply not true, as there are old collegues in Japan, more then alive from that era, and even younger ones that still know the history from the 50’s and 60’s.
Just from looking at those pictures/your EXACTLY (no need to shout) mentionings, I can see already a few things that are different than any Yamaha kit made in the 50’s/60’s and early 70’s (besides being the Yamaha historican and thus maintaining/owning most catalogs and info from even before 1967, I have owned and played many).
Namely the Tom holder, bd bracket, and the bd legs/bd leg mounts.
I can’t speak for the mufflers as I don’t see them in your post.
There also never were any stickers on Yamaha’s (made in japan was branded in hardware) as the badges already had branded in Made In Japan words themselves.
Yamaha only had a Blue Willow wrap (and for one year, Blue Pine too). Was that what you meant with Blue Diamond Pearl?
Grey interiors was something that other companies did too btw.
Of course Gretsch with the silver sealer, Pearl, and others I can’t remember the name, but have seen them on stencil kit snares in the past.
Another fun fact: some of Yamaha’s interiors had a bit of green teint in them instead of being fully grey.
Now, if someone feel the urge to name these made by Yamaha. Feel free.
Im just here for historical inaccuracy, and that is why im so privy on this matter.
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antiquemusic
Active Member
thank you
and the grey paint inside the shells has green tint to it. If you read the entire thread you will see that I had to completely refinish the bass drum inside and outside as it had wallpaper on the inside hahaha woooooboy haha so the bass drum has a different shade of gray since I was the one who refinished it
In the video from Steve Maxwell drums of that R-380 kit and matching Yamaha snare they show the muffler tone control knob on Yamaha snare drum and it matches the Rogers R-380 drums exactly, even the knob is the same...in fact all Yamaha C-220, D-20, D-30 drums of the 1967-1970 era and Rogers R-380 drums same era (not sure about R-360 series but assume they are same) have same tone control mufflers even the same knobs
and the tom arm mounting hardware of the R-380 bass drum I bought to re-wrap was the same (except for baseplate which was a later BigR that previous owner modified probably because original broke...the 4 holes for original baseplate were on my bass drum shell btw) as the R-380 drumset being sold by Steve Maxwell Drums and is same hardware as Yamaha D-30 drumsets from 1968-1970 (see photo below)
Also, those early years of Yamaha between their USA commercial retail sold drums of 1967 and their first real drum factory in 1970 were a time where Yamaha drums were likely comprised of parts made by various subcontractors that likely changed in and after 1970 when that big real factory was built. Of course you knew already since you're the historical expert but it would have been helpful to mention that fact so others here would know it (see attached image of 1967-1970's timeline) those very early years the hardware and shells match Rogers R-380 drums exactly except for the lug casing...even the nuts and bolts & screws are exactly the same and honestly distinctive in shape and size compared to the other MIJ drums that era
compare this Red Ripple wrap finish set of late 1960's Yamaha Drums being sold on Reverb to the Rogers R-380 drums being sold by Steve Maxwell Drums in Youtube video noted above, you will see EXACTLY same wrap finish and same tom mount hardware and tone control mufflers and green gray painted interiors
reverb.com
now notice the following late 1960's Yamaha C-220 set of drums for sale on Reverb and although they don't have green gray interior shells (seller says they restored / stripped drums) and this is a 4 piece single rack tom set-up with consolette mount, they DO have exactly same tone control muffler knobs and spade tom mount plate on rack tom shell as Rogers R-380 drums AND EXACTLY same floor tom leg mount brackets as Rogers R-380 drums same era...floor tom leg brackets that used drum key to tighten legs instead of the later wing nut which I believe is totally unique to early Yamaha drums as I have never seen that drum key screw tighten method on anything else.
reverb.com
I stand confidently behind my statement that the Rogers R-380 drums of this era themselves bear witness that they were made on same machinery by same people with same materials as Yamaha drums of that same late 1960's era and clearly Steve Maxwell Drums a very well respected vintage drums shop agrees with me and many others. Although I don't work for Yamaha drums or have any friends there or maintain Yamaha's historical information website, I have been professionally restoring vintage & antique drums for a very long time and have a massive collection of vintage & antique drum catalogs and advertisements from the 1800's to 1970's (and banjo catalogs, guitar catalogs, and other musical instruments catalogs from 1800's to 1970's) so it isn't as though I am ignorant of how to identify vintage drums. I toured extensively when I was younger with a late 60's Pearl tiger stripe 4 piece that I fixed up in a popular outlaw country band when I was younger. I have always played vintage and antique drums and musical instruments my whole life. I say this not to boast and I am not even hyping my business or mentioning it by name here but I do have experience and knowledge and am well qualified to give my opinion with factual photo evidence as well as mentioning that other well respected vintage drum dealers who've been around 50 years agree with what I have wrote here that late 1960's Rogers R-380 drums were absolutely positively built with Yamaha shells, hardware, and wraps
PS @ Drum Mer DFO Master: I clicked on the website link at bottom of your signature "www.musiqsoundsproductions.com" in two different web browsers and I got a computer virus warning every time, care to explain why that it is and what exactly your website is all about?
Anyhow, much love to everyone for chiming in and adding your opinions and information // happy holidays
and the grey paint inside the shells has green tint to it. If you read the entire thread you will see that I had to completely refinish the bass drum inside and outside as it had wallpaper on the inside hahaha woooooboy haha so the bass drum has a different shade of gray since I was the one who refinished it
In the video from Steve Maxwell drums of that R-380 kit and matching Yamaha snare they show the muffler tone control knob on Yamaha snare drum and it matches the Rogers R-380 drums exactly, even the knob is the same...in fact all Yamaha C-220, D-20, D-30 drums of the 1967-1970 era and Rogers R-380 drums same era (not sure about R-360 series but assume they are same) have same tone control mufflers even the same knobs
and the tom arm mounting hardware of the R-380 bass drum I bought to re-wrap was the same (except for baseplate which was a later BigR that previous owner modified probably because original broke...the 4 holes for original baseplate were on my bass drum shell btw) as the R-380 drumset being sold by Steve Maxwell Drums and is same hardware as Yamaha D-30 drumsets from 1968-1970 (see photo below)
Also, those early years of Yamaha between their USA commercial retail sold drums of 1967 and their first real drum factory in 1970 were a time where Yamaha drums were likely comprised of parts made by various subcontractors that likely changed in and after 1970 when that big real factory was built. Of course you knew already since you're the historical expert but it would have been helpful to mention that fact so others here would know it (see attached image of 1967-1970's timeline) those very early years the hardware and shells match Rogers R-380 drums exactly except for the lug casing...even the nuts and bolts & screws are exactly the same and honestly distinctive in shape and size compared to the other MIJ drums that era
compare this Red Ripple wrap finish set of late 1960's Yamaha Drums being sold on Reverb to the Rogers R-380 drums being sold by Steve Maxwell Drums in Youtube video noted above, you will see EXACTLY same wrap finish and same tom mount hardware and tone control mufflers and green gray painted interiors
Yamaha DT-225 1960’s Red ripple vintage rare | Reverb
Sizes: 20x14 16x16 13x9 12x8For sale is a late 60’s Yamaha DT-225 kit that has been modified/ restored over the years. This kit has been compiled of two separate kits. The 13x9 rack tom and 16x16 floor tom were previously owned by Ed Shaughnessy and were acquired from Pro drum Hollywood. The rack...
reverb.com
now notice the following late 1960's Yamaha C-220 set of drums for sale on Reverb and although they don't have green gray interior shells (seller says they restored / stripped drums) and this is a 4 piece single rack tom set-up with consolette mount, they DO have exactly same tone control muffler knobs and spade tom mount plate on rack tom shell as Rogers R-380 drums AND EXACTLY same floor tom leg mount brackets as Rogers R-380 drums same era...floor tom leg brackets that used drum key to tighten legs instead of the later wing nut which I believe is totally unique to early Yamaha drums as I have never seen that drum key screw tighten method on anything else.
Vintage 1960's Yamaha C220 Blue Thunder Drum Kit w/ matching snare MIJ | Reverb
Lovely condition vintage MIJ Yamaha kit from the 60's, complete with matching snare in Blue Thunder wrap. Nice sizes. Has been stripped, cleaned and polished. 14x20 kick, 5x14 snare, 8x13 tom & 16x14 floor tom. Shell construction is 6 ply birch with mahogany inner core. Quality is higher tha...
reverb.com
I stand confidently behind my statement that the Rogers R-380 drums of this era themselves bear witness that they were made on same machinery by same people with same materials as Yamaha drums of that same late 1960's era and clearly Steve Maxwell Drums a very well respected vintage drums shop agrees with me and many others. Although I don't work for Yamaha drums or have any friends there or maintain Yamaha's historical information website, I have been professionally restoring vintage & antique drums for a very long time and have a massive collection of vintage & antique drum catalogs and advertisements from the 1800's to 1970's (and banjo catalogs, guitar catalogs, and other musical instruments catalogs from 1800's to 1970's) so it isn't as though I am ignorant of how to identify vintage drums. I toured extensively when I was younger with a late 60's Pearl tiger stripe 4 piece that I fixed up in a popular outlaw country band when I was younger. I have always played vintage and antique drums and musical instruments my whole life. I say this not to boast and I am not even hyping my business or mentioning it by name here but I do have experience and knowledge and am well qualified to give my opinion with factual photo evidence as well as mentioning that other well respected vintage drum dealers who've been around 50 years agree with what I have wrote here that late 1960's Rogers R-380 drums were absolutely positively built with Yamaha shells, hardware, and wraps
PS @ Drum Mer DFO Master: I clicked on the website link at bottom of your signature "www.musiqsoundsproductions.com" in two different web browsers and I got a computer virus warning every time, care to explain why that it is and what exactly your website is all about?
Anyhow, much love to everyone for chiming in and adding your opinions and information // happy holidays
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antiquemusic
Active Member
I have pieces of it, but nowhere near enough to cover even a small tom. As you likely know, removing 50+ year old drum wrap with heat gun is tough and the wrap gets burned / melted easily and got warped / stretched. I have some pieces, nothing big. I actually use old drum wrap to do headstock overlays on old banjo & guitar guitar repairs where headstock is busted. So I used a piece of that old Rogers wrap to do overlay veneer coverup on antique banjo that had busted headstock I am restoring for a church friend
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levelpebble
Very well Known Member
Above, truer words have not been spoken.
You don't know what you are talking about regarding the CBS Rogers/Yamaha connection.
