Recording the "Ping"? Or not?

Quai34

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So, I have spent a lot of time with one of my friend drummer who helped me setting up mikes, gain, EQ, gate and compressor on the 16 channels of my Mackie Onyx 1640i. The goal is to try to get the best recording we can, which could be what we would hear as well in a live show.
At first, two years ago, I didn't like the ping of any drum, I was more a crack guy, if you know what I mean. But after two years, with the help of some of you, I started to educate my ears and like a lot a good ping which is usually what define a snare compared to another one.
When I play for me, I let the snare opened, very little dampening. Sometime nothing, even with a quite dingy snare like the Benny Greg brass.
but when you put a Mike on it, it's always too much proéminent and working with the EQ isn't as efficient than dampening it a bit at the source.
that said, what is your inputut on that and do you let enough ping to cut through at the mixing stage if you need it, or do you record with very few? Do you record "pre" EQ and Insert or "Post" EQ and Insert?
I could do both with the Mackie, the FireWire could be before or after I would like your take about it.
thanks sincerely
 

Quai34

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Ok, well, I think I will record on time "Pre" to see what it could be live and one time with no como and EQ and leave it to the final mix....I like my sound I have room but still too much echo, the room needs treatment!!! Thanks for the fast reply also.
 

Whitten

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Yes, I have extensively deadened my standard room. Too little room is better than too much IMO.
 

Quai34

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Yeah, I have almost paid 3 diffusers from Diffuser city, quite large, two 18"X 18" and one 26"X 26". I will order this week a Broadway kit from Primacoustic, I'm in Canada and they are in British Columbia, Canada too, so, easy and correct price as well. 8 panels of 12"X48"X 3", 5 panels will be behind the kit on the wall, 2 between the diffusers and one on a door in front of the drums kit. I already have two London Bass Trap from them but I still have to figure out how to get a cloud to put on top of the drums. And my wife might not like it to have panels attached on the ceiling...I might have to build an "easy in/easy out" way to lift the c!oud to the ceiling and to pull it down after the recording....
It's our practice room though, so, no need to deaden it too much, the den, where I mix, is already completely treated.
Thanks for the input.
 

Cauldronics

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I find “ping” is related to the snare being used and that it either blends nicely with the music or not. Some of my snares have a clean ping where it’s more like a reverb built into the drum than a ringing overtone. Others sound like a basketball trying to be a singer.

I think what will help more than anything is having a direction and a sound in mind for whatever you’re recording. You can go about it just recording what you have and that will be the sound, or you can develop a concept for each song. The concept will go a long way creating the sounds you want when you have an idea of how they fit the goal.

That sounds ok in print but I know many times going in, there might not be a clear picture of what the song is supposed to be, and it develops on its own. I’m just pouring out an approach for when you do have a concept.
 

Quai34

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I find “ping” is related to the snare being used and that it either blends nicely with the music or not. Some of my snares have a clean ping where it’s more like a reverb built into the drum than a ringing overtone. Others sound like a basketball trying to be a singer.

I think what will help more than anything is having a direction and a sound in mind for whatever you’re recording. You can go about it just recording what you have and that will be the sound, or you can develop a concept for each song. The concept will go a long way creating the sounds you want when you have an idea of how they fit the goal.

That sounds ok in print but I know many times going in, there might not be a clear picture of what the song is supposed to be, and it develops on its own. I’m just pouring out an approach for when you do have a concept.
Great!!! That was exactly what I was feeling without being able to vocalize it clearly, thanks a lot. My drummer friends, who is more of a 70's kind of drummer/ala Ringo Starr sound was oushing me to remove it almost completely but the songs we are going to record, are covers of Bruni Mars and Chic and as they are Funk songs, I feel that the ping will blend well with the claps and the high pitch 16th notes on guitar and on the hihats si, yes, good idea, I will record them with no EQ and effect, then with the EQ and effects I have already set up and then, last one, with the Gate and Compressor but removing the EQ and I will see which version fits better the song.
 

Cauldronics

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For stuff like Bruno Mars and Chic the drums have an overall tighter, more controlled, less pingy sound. Funk drum sounds in general are tight, controlled and focused, so you might find that controlling the drum sound with dampening and tuning is more useful than EQ and compression.

If you already hear that the ping will blend with other sounds in the mix the way you want, then go for it! There are no rules but there are some standard practices that will make it sound like what’s expected.

If you can post the finished track and maybe a comparison with more pingy drums, I’d be interested in hearing it.
 

Quai34

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I will for sure but it won't be before a long time, I want to treat/test the room first as I hear too much flutter echo and/or Reverb. Treating the room might fix the extra ping that I'm hearing with the Mike. But yes, good idea, with and without ping might be interesting to upload, I will do it when I will be easy for it, thanks for all the advices.
I could fix with gate or compressor at the mix stage but I would like as well to sound it like it's live with the two mix bus L/R as well, to out on our website and thus, that's why I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of the sound guy at a live show (sound guy who might be me though, depending on how much the fees for the show are and allow us or not to hire a sound guy)
 

Quai34

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For stuff like Bruno Mars and Chic the drums have an overall tighter, more controlled, less pingy sound. Funk drum sounds in general are tight, controlled and focused, so you might find that controlling the drum sound with dampening and tuning is more useful than EQ and compression.

If you already hear that the ping will blend with other sounds in the mix the way you want, then go for it! There are no rules but there are some standard practices that will make it sound like what’s expected.

If you can post the finished track and maybe a comparison with more pingy drums, I’d be interested in hearing it.
Also, you are right about Bruno Mars/Funk Chic songs, that's why our main Snare is the Tama Maple Star Reserve, the driest one and very focused at !east the way I tuned it. But I still feel I miss the Character of the snare if I remove too much ping from it.
 


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