Rivet Location

[drumdrum1234]

Hey everyone,

I'm looking to install rivets on a 22" Paiste Masters Dark Ride. Does anyone have suggestions on rivet placement?

I've considered clustering 2 or 3 rivets at the 1 o'clock position. I also saw Gregory Hutchinson using what I believe is the same cymbal, and he had rivets in the 3 and 9 o'clock positions which I haven't seen before. It sounds great in the video (he also sounds great). Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated!

 

[dustjacket]

I love that video, go to it all the time. His ride sounds sublime here as well. I would have a 2 rivet cluster at 3 or 9.

 

[JDA]

Go with your own instincts observations and happy stances it's between you and the cymbal..
some mistakes ( oops It' didn't rivets/ permanent rivet holes) will be made.

 

[Seb77]

I would start with one rivet, find a good position for an even sound using a rivet on a string or something similar. After installing the first one, try to find another place for a second rivet to complement te first one.

 

[Gretsch>All&Everythang]

I’ve riveted 2 cymbals. Both I found the cymbals resting point on the stand then went 12, 3, 9 o’clock, 2 inches in.

3 rivets on my 22 MtL sounds great

 

[JDA]

like SEb says; check where the cymbal likes to sit so you don't put the rivets directly in your playing area
every cymbal sits different)

 

[Rock Salad]

You can test out spots on the cymbal with a tiny piece of tape and a rivet

 

[Tama CW]

Or install a light chain with rivets on it looped off the cymbal stand top. See if you even like it with a rivet or two first. Once you drill....that's it.

 

[GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!]

I've done a 3 rivet cluster at 1 o clock, 1 rivet at 6 o clock, and 4 at 12, 3, 6, 9. They all work. It is worth considering how many it will need, and install them one at a time, just don't get drill happy. Also well worth mentioning that the type of rivet makes a big difference. I had some Sabian steel rivets, but they were too heavy to use more than 1 or 2. Recently got Bosphorus brass rivets and they're significantly sizzlier and lighter (I have 4 on a 22 K Con Light ride).

As a curious aside, to avoid drilling the stamp and ensure that all rivets weren't on the same lathe line, I moved the 3 and 9 o clock rivet holes further up the bow than the initial 12 and 6. My theory was they'd be more likely to be activated by playing different parts of the cymbal, and create a slightly different sound being further up the bow. Hard to say if any of this is true, but the cymbal sounds lush. Again, any more than 2 steel rivets added too much weight and actually choked the cymbal, whereas the brass did not.

Happy drilling!

 

[Blue Zurich]

I've three rivets at 9, 12 and 3 o'clock, 2 inches in on my MC Jazz 19". If it's a bit much, I can take two off and it becomes subtle. 9 & 3 is a sweet spot.

 

[JazzDrumGuy]

Put the cymbal on the stand. Spin it gently and it will end up hanging the way it will based on gravity, angle of stand and cymbal weight. I usually do a rivet at 12:00 (far end of the edge facing you). I go 1-1.5" in from the edge. Put some blue painter's tape on both sides, and drill with a steady hand. Install then play it. See if you need a 2nd rivet at that time after playing. Most times, I have been fine with one rivet. I am not a fan of the 3 clusters (aka Zildjian) that are like 3 rivets in a 3" line. I have done 3:00/12:00/9:00 on a flat ride because it needed it. I have done a triangle too (12:00, 4:00, 8:00) once, too. It depends.

In the above video, it looks like he has rivets at 3/6/9/12. I don't personally like them at 6:00 because they seem to be in the way.

 

[Gretsch>All&Everythang]

I've done a 3 rivet cluster at 1 o clock, 1 rivet at 6 o clock, and 4 at 12, 3, 6, 9. They all work. It is worth considering how many it will need, and install them one at a time, just don't get drill happy. Also well worth mentioning that the type of rivet makes a big difference. I had some Sabian steel rivets, but they were too heavy to use more than 1 or 2. Recently got Bosphorus brass rivets and they're significantly sizzlier and lighter (I have 4 on a 22 K Con Light ride).

As a curious aside, to avoid drilling the stamp and ensure that all rivets weren't on the same lathe line, I moved the 3 and 9 o clock rivet holes further up the bow than the initial 12 and 6. My theory was they'd be more likely to be activated by playing different parts of the cymbal, and create a slightly different sound being further up the bow. Hard to say if any of this is true, but the cymbal sounds lush. Again, any more than 2 steel rivets added too much weight and actually choked the cymbal, whereas the brass did not.

Happy drilling!

I am using the Bosphorus brass rivets as well and love them! I have them on your old Bounce and my 22 mtl

 

[Seb77]

If a cymbal is lopsided, putting a cymbal at 6 o'clock is not the smartest move

 

[311Club]

To find the position from the edge proceed as follows:
Put the cymbal horizontally on a stand. No top felt, it needs to be able to swing freely.
Crash it with your favourite stick, then put the tip of the stick onto the surface of the cymbal. Hold the sick very lightly, so it can bounce freely. Move the tip slowly from the edge towards the center of the cymbal. Mark the spot where the stick bounces the most. Repeat a couple of times to verify the position.
This method assures that the rivets sits at the point with the highest amplitude of the cymbal's vibration. This means the rivet will start sizzling sooner than at any other point of the cymbal and it will sustain the longest.
If you are looking for a short sustain and don't want the sizzle to happen at low volume, just mark the spot with the least bounce of the stick. Or any point inbetween for that matter
I saw this method at the Paiste factory and have applied it successfully ever since.

 

[peter]

Not on the heavy side of the cymbal, unless you want to be hitting it all the time...

In terms on configuration, I like two or three rivets placed within a 90 degree spread, set about 1.25" to 1.5" in from the edge.

 

[kopterguy]

I am about to install rivets for my first sizzle ride. It’s a 20” Sabian AA that I don’t have much money in. I was watching a youtube from I think Rick Dior, and he does eight holes with eight rivets. It seems to much. What is the recommended number for that size?

 

[marc3k]

I guess it depends on the weight of the cymbal. You will notice that after a critical number of rivets they stop sizzeling very quickly because the energy is already gone.

Me personally I don't like the clusters. I always drill 6 equally spaced holes - it's also the easiest to measure just with a piece of string or twine. With 6 holes available, you can play around with the placement, and the open holes don't cause any issue, at least not in my experience!

 

[kopterguy]

Sounds like a good way

 

[stick2it]

Seb77 has it right: install one rivet and see what you get.

I installed a single rivet on each of two Istanbul Agop cymbals, one 19" 30th Anniv. and one 20" Turk. They don't need a second. Plenty of sizzle. I have another Agop 20" -- a Vezir I had Tim Roberts modify -- that I drilled for two rivets: one at 1 o'clock, and another at 2:30, to match what the Agop factory installs for the 21" Mel Lewis. I found for the Vezir's two holes that if I install one Bosphorus rivet (smaller head, lighter) and one Agop rivet (larger head, heavier), the combination of the two different rivets gives a better sizzle than two identical rivets. (I bought a bunch of both of these rivets at $6/bunch from Tony at Cymbals Only.)

In brief: I'd drill one rivet hole; then try different rivets in the one hole. If that doesn't work for you, drill a second hole and try different rivet combinations until it's right for you. You can always drill a third and fourth hole. Drilling holes in B20 is easy if you learn how to drill them by a reliable source on YouTube.

 

[David M Scott]

Hey everyone,

I'm looking to install rivets on a 22" Paiste Masters Dark Ride. Does anyone have suggestions on rivet placement?

I've considered clustering 2 or 3 rivets at the 1 o'clock position. I also saw Gregory Hutchinson using what I believe is the same cymbal, and he had rivets in the 3 and 9 o'clock positions which I haven't seen before. It sounds great in the video (he also sounds great). Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated!

I have a Zil Canada,18in Zilco heavy ride I bought brand new for about $45 (Canadian) At that time rivets were all the rage. I had a mechanic friend drill precision holes at 12, 3, 6 and 9. Over the years I add or remove rivets depending on how much wash I want. As for rivets for years I used "short" split copper that were easy to install and remove. Because they were very short they were almost flush with the cymbal surface and didn't protrude and scratch the adjacent cymbal in my bag. The Copper also "seemed"to sound better than the long chrome type sold by Zildjian.
I had a whole bottle I bought at the hardware so never used the same rivet twice. I haven't been able locate those rivets in years so I have to be inventive using even the aluminum book bind rivets that are threaded and screw together. They were available at stationery stores.
But that hole combo worked great as it gave lots of flexiblity.
I note a lot of cymbal that have 3 rivets grouped together which I suppose in essence gives a similar sound effect.