Rogers Cleveland Hex Rod help!!!

OptikDrums

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Ok - so i will do my best to try and explain this one!

I just purchased a cleveland B&B rogers kit 'sky blue ripple'
- Oh yeah, shes sweet!! 20, 12, 14 and matching 14 snare :)

Anyways, here is the issue.. it doesn't seem like the L hex arm that
came with the kit is original... The tom side of the hex will only go
about 1/2" into the tom mount and then stop. It is then hard to back
out. Now, the other side (bass drum) of the hex arm will go all the way
into the drum just fine! So, i took the tom mount off of the 12 and checked
to see if the hex ride would fit going through the back.. SAME THING!
the hex rod on the shorter (tom side) would not even start to go in.
It was simply too big! and again, the bass drum side of the hex fit perfectly!

Ok so!! I took a hex tom mount off of my Dayton kit to just check and compare...
EXACT SAME ISSUE! - Bass side of the hex fit.. and the tom side only went in about
1/2".

All i can figure is maybe Rogers started manufacturing there hex rods different and i
just simply need to find an arm from the early cleveland era.

Has anyone else ever heard of this or can anyone give me advise as to what to do?

Thanks!!!
-Chris
 

madchops82

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Forget about the rod, just sell me the set. That is one of my 60s dream kits.
 

tommykat1

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Shoot, sounds bad. I'll take the drum set off your hands for you. After, all, they can't be worth much. :rolleyes::-D

Seriously, though...

...the English Rogers mounts are a different size. The U. S. collets are available all over the place. Not saying for sure, but maybe there's a mixed up mount here.
 

OptikDrums

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Haha - Yeah i just got these in yesterday from a guy in Canada.

He purchased them from Steve Maxwell a couple of years back!
I accidentally ran into them on Craigslist.

Great condition!
No cracks in ANY of the lugs on the 12 and 14 floor.
20 has about half with cracks and snare has also about half.

I want to save up for some of the Repro B&B casings but
they are so damn expensive! I just don't want any more of
these to start cracking...

Also, i'm not sure if i should just replace the tom mount and keep the original,
or keep searching for that hex rod...
 

OptikDrums

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Shoot, sounds bad. I'll take the drum set off your hands for you. After, all, they can't be worth much. :rolleyes::-D

Seriously, though...

...the English Rogers mounts are a different size. The U. S. collets are available all over the place. Not saying for sure, but maybe there's a mixed up mount here.
Ok.. so how would i know what im looking for if
i was checking through ebay?

I'm not extremely familiar with ALL rogers details.
I've only been into the vintage collecting for roughly 2 years..
 

Powertone

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That's interesting. If you have the same situation with the Dayton hex rod, then it sounds like you might have a bad tom mount.

Very nice kit. I love seeing those L rods on the bass drum. Isn't that steel grey ripple?
 

OptikDrums

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That's interesting. If you have the same situation with the Dayton hex rod, then it sounds like you might have a bad tom mount.

Very nice kit. I love seeing those L rods on the bass drum. Isn't that steel grey ripple?
I have the original email sent from Steve Maxwell to the guy i purchased the kit from... and Steve said, as well as the buyer,
that the kit is a "blue ripple" - The colors may be a bit washed out from the camera in my iPhone so i'll post additional pics
in a while including the problem i'm having. I've been told the Hex rod sizes slightly changed over the years.

This mount is even different. While most rogers mounts that i have seen - the corners of the hex rod fit in between the gaps
in the teeth inside the collet, this mount has grooves inside the teeth which the hex corners fit into. Kinda hard to explain so
i'll try and grab some nice photos.
 

OptikDrums

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Alright.. so here are a few more pics... probably bad lighting for the color again.
but they definitely have a blue to them. Let me know what you guys think!

Also, here is a picture of the collet mount.. Can you see those grooves
in the teeth? They match up with the opening in the back..

And again.. the bass side of the hex fits all the way through the mount.. but
the tom side doesn't.. and i've inspected the inside of the mount and have tested
another hex rod.. but it was from a later dayton kit...
 

JDZ

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Yea, it look like someone had the hex not in alignment with the collet plate...and hammered it in deforming it. The red arrow indicates where the point of the hex should have gone but they stuck it in where the white arrow is (see below) Damn drummers. It's probably easiest to buy an new plate. They are not expensive.

Dave
 

OptikDrums

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Yea, it look like someone had the hex not in alignment with the collet plate...and hammered it in deforming it. The red arrow indicates where the point of the hex should have gone but they stuck it in where the white arrow is (see below) Damn drummers. It's probably easiest to buy an new plate. They are not expensive.

Dave

Yeah that what a first thought, but it aligns with the back perfectly.
Also, when trying to put the hex rod in from the back.. it won't even start!
So it has too be too big!

Plus the grooves are perfect! - It is just weird that the back side aligns with
those grooves... like it was from the factory that way...

I'm still at a loss
 

OptikDrums

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I guess if you guys are positive that Rogers never made anything like this,
it must be a factory defect if those groves are aligning with the back of the mount....
 

trixonian

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Can you fix it with a small metal file? Oh, and nice drums. They look grey to me too though. I thought the blue ripple was more of a sky blue color.
 

OptikDrums

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Can you fix it with a small metal file? Oh, and nice drums. They look grey to me too though. I thought the blue ripple was more of a sky blue color.
I don't think so.. The groove that don't seem original... align with the hex shape in the
back of the mount.. PLUS the rod wont fit when feeding it in through the back..

I have no idea whats going on.
 

Nutbox

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The early collets clamped the corners of the hex rod in the centre of the finger (or whatever it is called). Later the hex rod was clamped on it's flats by those fingers. I don't know when the changed happened cos it never did happen with English Rogers but that collet looks OK to me.
I would expect that later tom arm that you have to be clamped on it's flats. Could be that the collet is earlier than the arm.
Have you tried the tom arm in one of the bass drum spur collets? Might be worth a try.
Your set has B&B lugs so I would have thought that it should have the earlier more lighter profile tom arm.
 

DanC

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Nutbox has it right, including the difference in the collet plates from early to later.

That is the wrong generation tom arm, it seems to me. It is not stamped 'pat. pend.' on top. The early units all had that stamp. The one you have looks like the style that came in 5-6 years after your drums were built. It's the same profile swivel ball/cup, but the stamp is gone.

There was a minute difference in the thickness of the hex shafts used in the early 60's, compared to the later (slightly thicker) units. Were talking a very small difference, but enough to cause a problem. The earlier hex was slightly smaller.
Try putting the tom arm in the collet plates for the spurs on the bass, it should not fit those either.

You say it fits the collet plate on the bass: who knows why. Maybe that one is a little worn, and has the segments inside spread apart a tiny amount.

Hard to believe the set left Steve Maxwell's that way, but it's possible. Maybe they sold the kit without ever setting it up.

Have you asked the guy who sold them to you about this?

You could try Bobby Chaisson at the DrumFarm.com, he might have the right arm for you.



:New_Orleans_Saints:
 

OptikDrums

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Nutbox has it right, including the difference in the collet plates from early to later.

That is the wrong generation tom arm, it seems to me. It is not stamped 'pat. pend.' on top. The early units all had that stamp. The one you have looks like the style that came in 5-6 years after your drums were built. It's the same profile swivel ball/cup, but the stamp is gone.

There was a minute difference in the thickness of the hex shafts used in the early 60's, compared to the later (slightly thicker) units. Were talking a very small difference, but enough to cause a problem. The earlier hex was slightly smaller.
Try putting the tom arm in the collet plates for the spurs on the bass, it should not fit those either.

You say it fits the collet plate on the bass: who knows why. Maybe that one is a little worn, and has the segments inside spread apart a tiny amount.

Hard to believe the set left Steve Maxwell's that way, but it's possible. Maybe they sold the kit without ever setting it up.

Have you asked the guy who sold them to you about this?

You could try Bobby Chaisson at the DrumFarm.com, he might have the right arm for you.



:New_Orleans_Saints:
Yeah! I've been talking to Bobby!
Thats what he said, the hex rod is just a newer model.

Also, the guy i bought them from, said that he only set them up once after getting them from Steve Maxwell
and it was a few years back, so he couldn't remember anything concerning the tom arm.

He also sent me pictures of the kit that Steve sent him when Steve still had it. The pictures show that tom
basically handing of the end of the hex rod - so i believe Steve just never fixed the problem....

If anyone knows where i can get an older hex rod arm, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!
I'm talking to Bobby at DrumFarm right now so hopefully that will work out!

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP!! YOU GUYS ROCK!
 

ReGaL Music

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If the hex arm you have is just a little too "thick", could you possibly take it to a machine shop and have them "professionally" file each side of the hex rod until it fits your mount?
 

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