Rogers Dyna-Sonic serial numbers

lovetheblues

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The 114xxx is clearly a 1983 number. As to just when... is hard to spot. ....
OK, thanks. You are probably right, but I am still confused then because Bill's list shows that serial number to be 1976. Unless the D38xxx, D114xxx, D119xxx in Bill's list should really be D38xx, D114xx, D119xx. Anyway, I will post photos when I get it.
 

tommykat1

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Lovetheblues: you have a Big R label on your drum, correct? Not easy to date those drums as the serials tend to be all over the place. They were printed on rolls of labels which were mixed up and used in different places at the plant.
The best way to do it is from some construction details. Post a couple of photos and aa couple of guys here can help you out.
......
Many thanks. Yes, it is a Big R. I have not yet taken possession. Will post photos when I receive.

Lovetheblues, your Dynasonic COB serial 114xxx......... should have black felts. That would place it about 1983. If it doesnt have felts, I dont know.
Many thanks. I will have a look at the felts when i get it. Not sure what colour they are yet.

The 114xxx is clearly a 1983 number. As to just when... is hard to spot. I have a dated Superten 1-26-83, number 101528, that was built for Gina Schock of the Go-Gos, it has green felts. Tommykat has another drum dated the same day also built for Gina Schock that has black felts. I have Dynasonic number 114608, that has black felts. Production ended in 1984 and the highest numbered drums I have seen are in the 12xxxx zone, with black felts. I have 122346 and 122347, both with black felt.
Ploughman nails it. The earliest XP10 wood snares may not have had felts. In 1982, green felts were applied to the wood snare drums only; the only wrap available was clear maple. There were no other colors or wrap variations offered. In 1983, it was decided that the green felts didn't necessarily match the other drums offered, so black felts were introduced on both snares and the three wood wrapped variations: natural maple, California Wine and Tobacco Sunburst.

There is conjecture that at the very end of production in late 1983/early 1984, some drum sets may have been assembled without felts, but there is no proof of this.
 

lovetheblues

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Ploughman nails it. The earliest XP10 wood snares may not have had felts. In 1982, green felts were applied to the wood snare drums only; the only wrap available was clear maple. There were no other colors or wrap variations offered. In 1983, it was decided that the green felts didn't necessarily match the other drums offered, so black felts were introduced on both snares and the three wood wrapped variations: natural maple, California Wine and Tobacco Sunburst.

There is conjecture that at the very end of production in late 1983/early 1984, some drum sets may have been assembled without felts, but there is no proof of this.
I am sorry, now I am completely confused. You say Ploughman nails it, but I have yet to confirm whether mine has green felts or not, and you are talking about wood, whereas mine is CoB.

Also, can you confirm what you mean by "felts". Initially I thought you meant on the muffler, but now I am beginning to think you mean something else, like perhaps a gasket under the lugs or something, else why would it matter if it doesn't match?
 

ThePloughman

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Ploughman nails it. The earliest XP10 wood snares may not have had felts. In 1982, green felts were applied to the wood snare drums only; the only wrap available was clear maple. There were no other colors or wrap variations offered. In 1983, it was decided that the green felts didn't necessarily match the other drums offered, so black felts were introduced on both snares and the three wood wrapped variations: natural maple, California Wine and Tobacco Sunburst.

There is conjecture that at the very end of production in late 1983/early 1984, some drum sets may have been assembled without felts, but there is no proof of this.
I am sorry, now I am completely confused. You say Ploughman nails it, but I have yet to confirm whether mine has green felts or not, and you are talking about wood, whereas mine is CoB.

Also, can you confirm what you mean by "felts". Initially I thought you meant on the muffler, but now I am beginning to think you mean something else, like perhaps a gasket under the lugs or something, else why would it matter if it doesn't match?

The Felts we refer to are gaskets under the lugs.
There are green felt COB dynasonics. I have seen one, and several on ebay, and I own a Brass Dynasonic with an 82 era number and green felts, (thanks Dan), we just do not know for sure when this practice started, or when, it ended prior to the end of production. I have an early Superten, very early in the XP10 serial range, untouched without felts.
The Gina Schock Drum


This one I picked up from the original owner out of Canada. He said he purchased in 1983. Black lug felts.

 

lovetheblues

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Ploughman nails it. The earliest XP10 wood snares may not have had felts. In 1982, green felts were applied to the wood snare drums only; the only wrap available was clear maple. There were no other colors or wrap variations offered. In 1983, it was decided that the green felts didn't necessarily match the other drums offered, so black felts were introduced on both snares and the three wood wrapped variations: natural maple, California Wine and Tobacco Sunburst.

There is conjecture that at the very end of production in late 1983/early 1984, some drum sets may have been assembled without felts, but there is no proof of this.
I am sorry, now I am completely confused. You say Ploughman nails it, but I have yet to confirm whether mine has green felts or not, and you are talking about wood, whereas mine is CoB.

Also, can you confirm what you mean by "felts". Initially I thought you meant on the muffler, but now I am beginning to think you mean something else, like perhaps a gasket under the lugs or something, else why would it matter if it doesn't match?

The Felts we refer to are gaskets under the lugs.
There are green felt COB dynasonics. I have seen one, and several on ebay, and I own a Brass Dynasonic with an 82 era number and green felts, (thanks Dan), we just do not know for sure when this practice started, or when, it ended prior to the end of production. I have an early Superten, very early in the XP10 serial range, untouched without felts.
The Gina Schock Drum


This one I picked up from the original owner out of Canada. He said he purchased in 1983. Black lug felts.

Yes! That is exactly like what I have bought (although in CoB): Green felt under the lugs and tension-rod lock nuts. I thought they were green bits of plastic gasket that the previous owner had put on afterwards; I did not realise that they are felt and that they came like that, and I did not realise that the tension-rod lock-nuts came with it either. Thanks for that!
 

tommykat1

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The tensioner luglocks were offered on the Dyna-Sonic only, and not on the Superten. Both Dynas and the Supertens--metal or wood--had felts (or not).

The drum in my avatar is the other Gina Schock snare to which Ploughman refers. It is a split shell one-off with black felts and luglocks, no Big R badge or serial number, and with an inscription and date inside, like Ploughman's. These are matching dates, written in ink by John Cermenaro, the last R&D manager of Rogers drums.
 

ThePloughman

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[Lovetheblues, it would be interesting to know the exact number of your COB Dynasonic.

Thanks.
 

tommykat1

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Ploughman, just noticed that your Gina Superten has luglocks. Interesting. Perhaps John C wanted to give her something extra.
 

DanC

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That's a late drum for sure, around '82 as the others have said. Only a year or 2 before the end.
There's no real functional difference in the COB drums since the big R badges came in, but some assembly details changed. Not sure if a tone control was there the whole time...
 

tommykat1

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With the green felts! Nice! A rare bird. Re the tone control: John C (ex of Rogers) has said that they discontinued it in late 82 or 83 except on special order. He admits that is memory is foggy, however. So either way appears to be correct.
 

ThePloughman

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With the green felts! Nice! A rare bird. Re the tone control: John C (ex of Rogers) has said that they discontinued it in late 82 or 83 except on special order. He admits that is memory is foggy, however. So either way appears to be correct.

His green felt is 114533, my black felt is 114608. Granted some overlap in useage of green and black felts, we already know that, but have we ever really determined the highest number on a green felt drum? This one might be right there.
 

tommykat1

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With the green felts! Nice! A rare bird. Re the tone control: John C (ex of Rogers) has said that they discontinued it in late 82 or 83 except on special order. He admits that is memory is foggy, however. So either way appears to be correct.

His green felt is 114533, my black felt is 114608. Granted some overlap in useage of green and black felts, we already know that, but have we ever really determined the highest number on a green felt drum? This one might be right there.
Very, very cool. This needs to get into the S/N list. Anybody doing that

Another thought: remember the S/N badges on the Big R drums were from a roll of foil tape with repeating numbers. Were the snares an exception?
 

ThePloughman

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The more numbers I see, the less I believe there was a lot of repitition.
Early on there are five digit numbers. Mostly on snares, some on toms and basses.
Nearly every 77 -78 drum I think you will find six digit numbers, 600xxx-750xxx and maybe above possibly into the low 800xxx numbers. And I am not sure I have seen ANY early Big R five ply drums, snares or drums with six digit numbers between 100000 and 500000.
I really wish I had actually kept a record of this, but I believed like everyone said, repetition.
The early XP8 drums in the 800xxx range.
1980-to some 81 XP8 drums with no number on the badges.
81/82 XP8 six digit numbers in the 900000 range and then starting with 100000
82-84..... six digits 100000 into the 120000 but ..... I cant remember any higher.

I would be overjoyed to see this clarified.
 

DanC

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Tommy, this is the first I've ever heard of numbers being repeated. It would defeat the whole theft-id purpose of serials, would it not?
I've never seen any evidence of duplicates.
And while there may be a broad indication of a timeline in the serials, I have seen so many exceptions that I remain convinced that different numbering sequences were provided by the supplier in the same time frame. A bunch of boxes within a given sequence were used during a given period, but during that period a box or 2 from another batch were added to the mix. That's my theory anyway. And I still don't know where the tags with no serials fit in.

From 76-on the drums changed very little, in my opinion, except for the change to the XP8 shells, which is different from the 60's into the early 70's when things seemed to change every 6 months to a year. I'm not suggesting this stuff is any better or worse or more or less important: just that it's a little more difficult to date and the dating is a little less vital since the changes were few.
 

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Biggest changes I note from 76 onward.

1. Throw off knob is no longer solid and chrome on top but a cheaper potmetal and riveted to shaft.
2. Same for the dampener knob and shaft.
3. Top of triple flange hoops flatten out more about 81 or 82.
 

tommykat1

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Tommy, this is the first I've ever heard of numbers being repeated. It would defeat the whole theft-id purpose of serials, would it not?
I've never seen any evidence of duplicates.
And while there may be a broad indication of a timeline in the serials, I have seen so many exceptions that I remain convinced that different numbering sequences were provided by the supplier in the same time frame. A bunch of boxes within a given sequence were used during a given period, but during that period a box or 2 from another batch were added to the mix. That's my theory anyway. And I still don't know where the tags with no serials fit in.

From 76-on the drums changed very little, in my opinion, except for the change to the XP8 shells, which is different from the 60's into the early 70's when things seemed to change every 6 months to a year. I'm not suggesting this stuff is any better or worse or more or less important: just that it's a little more difficult to date and the dating is a little less vital since the changes were few.
Hmmmn. On the ROF, it was discussed a few years ago between Jack S. and Bruce F., as I remember, that the Big R S/Ns repeated. Note that Ploughman alludes to this above, but now he thinks that maybe it was not so. I personally have no evidence of this. I'm simply repeating what I thought to be common knowledge. Maybe I have it wrong...?
 

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No, Tommy, you dont have it wrong, because that was the consensus, which I never agreed with. And over the past several years Ive looked at a lot of Big R badges on ebay listed drums, comparing numbers with drum construction, especially on snares, and the more Ive looked at the more I have been convinced there was no repetition. Some things are out of sequence, like in 82 to early 83 using badges in the 100000s, but those numbers seem to be absent from 1975/76 drums. I have never seen a low 6 digit five ply drum. Many 5 digit five ply drums, then starting into the 600,000 range. That much I can remember, what gets my goat is that I should have been documenting this stuff over the last 5-6 years.
 

DanC

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Also, some numbers start with 'R' and others with 'RD': yet another batch of labels, I suppose.

As I stated above, major changes were not very common during 1976-84 - with the exception of the XP8 intro. So, only my opinion of course, dating them is difficult and the serials are not a source of consistent help. And since things were stable, then dating is doesn't really provide much insight - in my opinion....
 

tommykat1

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Dang, I love this stuff! Ploughman, are you keeping a good log now? You seem to have the best handle on it.
 


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