Rogers Shells - Species of the plies ?

rhythmace

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I would never think that Rogers was not top quality all the way through. If the sharp edges, thin shells and plied rerings made the sound, then I really don't care that much what the wood make up is. It's cool to know for academic reasons at this point though. IMO Ace
 

GrandpaCleve

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GrandpaCleve said:
Here is a thought. Did Rogers actually advertise a certain wood makeup, back in the day? If someone at Keller or Rogers got it wrong, that may have been the origins of Maple in 3 of the plies. It does make sense that wood Dynas would have an upgraded shell make up. Ace
Ace, In the Covington era of Rogers there was no other mention of shell construction as a selling point other than "Perma Built shell." Just the abveviation of the word "permanent," lasting forever, shells were advertised as a selling point in that Grossman Music owned era.
Dan, You were unclear in your rant. Please tell us how you really feel? Sorry had to- just trying to make light of your frustration all coming from your passion for the Rogers drum co. Please do type it all out because it is healthy to "let it out and let it go." Write anger on a balloon and watch it fly away...again just trying to keep it light. After all this is a pubic forum where anybody can say what they want or are interested in.

I know you've stated that you don't give a sh...but some people do as Kevin is going to the extreme of sending some samples to a lab to be tested. I can only respect his passion for wanting to know this detail and truth of the Rogers drum Co..

Please feel free to look the other way when the results come in.

To a certain degree I don't care either and feel the same way that they used what was on hand over the years for the inner plies. But I am curious as to the lab result samples and Kevins same passion for finding out what HE feels is important.

I wish you well and less stress in a fun place here for all to discuss what they choose to. Please be well and go break something or do what ever you have to so this anger leaves you. Don't let it bottle up inside. So thanks for posting your rant as well.

Wishing you the best as always, Gary
 

GrandpaCleve

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Dan, Glad you have calmed down. Thank you right back...I'm a nut. And the first one to admit it. I was concerned for your well being. Mental anguish sucks!

Knowing you are o.k. and got it out -I'm gonna go play with a Thompson 1940s kazoo.

I said it early on...they were wood workers who also supplied furniture so I'm sure variations were common through the years of shell construction.

I feel a bit responsible for providing a shell sample to be tested. But I can only respect ones Rogers quest for knowledge and filling a blank in their Rogers head. I can relate to that!


Be Well, Gary
 

bkalebjian

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Dan, speaking of fools errand-- getting mad about what others choose to do with their time is a foolish errand if I ever did see one. Live and let live. Don't open the thread, don't read it, dont let it bother you. Be the master of your domain. It's an exercise in restraint and accepting those things you cannot change. Breathe in, breathe out, and for Gods sake, be thankful nobody is taking sandpaper to your drums! :)
 

Mcjnic

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This whole thread has been interesting to watch. I stopped reading it early on. It was crap. It was a urinating fun fest with some bad mojo mixed in. The OP has been possibly the rudest poster I've come across in quite a while. Not sure why or where it came from. Don't really care.
Then I noticed that Gary kept posting on it. Often. I opened it back up and it was like walking from Kansas to Oz ... color was discovered.
But what I saw happen here has been phenomenal. Gary jumps in and adds credence and real value to this discussion ... and it turns the page into a real good read. I'm not personally biting at the bit to get at the wood ply identities, but I can see the value. It's Vintage drum knowledge and I understand the drive. I obsess over several Vintage drum bits and history.
The point of all this rambling is this ...
Gary, you hold serious value on this forum. It's not just anybody that can turn the turd truck into this extremely interesting thread.
My hats off to you, Gary. I'm posting this in the open in full honest disclosure. Whatever your motivation ... Great job.
 

DanC

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bizrad523 said:
Dan, speaking of fools errand-- getting mad about what others choose to do with their time is a foolish errand if I ever did see one. Live and let live. Don't open the thread, don't read it, dont let it bother you. Be the master of your domain. It's an exercise in restraint and accepting those things you cannot change. Breathe in, breathe out, and for Gods sake, be thankful nobody is taking sandpaper to your drums!
I'm not mad about what others choose to do, but impatient with efforts to needlessly muddy the waters. What anyone wants to do with their time is none of my business; diseminating speculative and unproven information, however, is something I do care about.
 

bkalebjian

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DanC said:
I'm not mad about what others choose to do, but impatient with efforts to needlessly muddy the waters. What anyone wants to do with their time is none of my business; diseminating speculative and unproven information, however, is something I do care about.
We all love these drums, and you can't really blame people who are truly passionate about something for following a hunch. If they find anything it wouldn't be the first time a surprising discovery upset "conventional wisdom." In fact it happens all the time. Look, Dan, you don't have to believe it. Heck, I don't at the moment. But there is no reason to come here and start denegrating others by attributing bad motives to their actions. That's no better than some of the other things I've seen written in here...

And spot on, MCJNIC... Gary, thanks.
 

tommykat1

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bizrad523 said:
I'm not mad about what others choose to do, but impatient with efforts to needlessly muddy the waters. What anyone wants to do with their time is none of my business; diseminating speculative and unproven information, however, is something I do care about.
We all love these drums, and you can't really blame people who are truly passionate about something for following a hunch. If they find anything it wouldn't be the first time a surprising discovery upset "conventional wisdom." In fact it happens all the time. Look, Dan, you don't have to believe it. Heck, I don't at the moment. But there is no reason to come here and start denegrating others by attributing bad motives to their actions. That's no better than some of the other things I've seen written in here...

And spot on, MCJNIC... Gary, thanks.
My two cents. I don't think Dan is denigrating others. Dan simply respects the Rogers drum archaeology from years past. The research may be flawed. We all see this from errors in the Rogers Book to comments from gurus like Harry Cangany.

But with new research, there needs to be a modicum of respect for the efforts of those who have spent many years studying Rogers drums, and not insults thrown at them. Both GrandpaCleve and DanC are individuals who have offered their assistance and knowledge to the Rogers community for many, many years. They are the good guys.

And everyone--certainly Dan included--is open minded enough to accept the input of experts in their fields who wish to analyze the shells that made Rogers famous. That's what member kdswdc is doing, and I think we can agree that we see a perfectionist here who may come across as abrasive, but who could have something important to offer.

We have a thread where kdswdc asks an open question about what makes up Rogers shell plies from the various eras: 3 ply Jaspers, 3 ply Kellers, 5 ply Kellers and 8 ply Kellers. Many Rogers "scholars" have weighed in on the subject, and there have been anecdotes about what the president of Keller claimed Rogers specified (maple and birch), but never about mutual exclusivity.

What's uncanny is that kdswdc, GrandpaCleve and DanC are coming from the same place! They are true Rogers aficionados (read "Rogers nuts") and only want the truth to come out.

The problem lies in HOW the truth is coming out, with many insults thrown and egos wounded, coupled with both incomplete data and misinformation. This is what needs to stop, IMHO.

As a comparison, maybe a wood expert will weigh in on the composition of the shells of Rogers' competitors of the era. That ought to make interesting conversation...
 

GrandpaCleve

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Mcjnic said:
This whole thread has been interesting to watch. I stopped reading it early on. It was crap. It was a urinating fun fest with some bad mojo mixed in. The OP has been possibly the rudest poster I've come across in quite a while. Not sure why or where it came from. Don't really care.
Then I noticed that Gary kept posting on it. Often. I opened it back up and it was like walking from Kansas to Oz ... color was discovered.
But what I saw happen here has been phenomenal. Gary jumps in and adds credence and real value to this discussion ... and it turns the page into a real good read. I'm not personally biting at the bit to get at the wood ply identities, but I can see the value. It's Vintage drum knowledge and I understand the drive. I obsess over several Vintage drum bits and history.
The point of all this rambling is this ...
Gary, you hold serious value on this forum. It's not just anybody that can turn the turd truck into this extremely interesting thread.
My hats off to you, Gary. I'm posting this in the open in full honest disclosure. Whatever your motivation ... Great job.
WOW! Thank you very much for that post. It was one of the nicest "things" somebody has said about me in a long time. Thank you very much. And the rest of the kind folk that followed that post. I am humbled by it. What a great thing to wake up to this morning.
Nice to be appreciated.

I spoke to Kevin between regular emails and found we were both interested in differnet things but the same in wanting to "know" a blank in the pages of the Rogers past. I focus/obsess on other details like hardware charaterisitcs and early NJ "Made In England" stamps on NJ Rogers hardware. Found another one last week! But we are one in the same looking for detail that has been gone for long and guessed at for many years.

Kevins extreme of taking pieces of wood to a lab will finally put to rest some of these questions and guesses and I respect his quest and actions. It will be a blank filler in his Rogers mind. I can relate to wanting to "know" things like that about Rogers.

Glad to help out and bring this topic to a civil conversation. Thanks again. I get off on people finding what they are looking for no matter if it's a missing drum to add to their set or information that will ease their mind. I said it before... mental anguish sucks!
 

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rhythmace

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Theory. It's been said that thin shelled drums, like Sonor, make a lower sound. Dan stated that Rogers have a crisp high pitch sound due to the sharp edges, thin shells and the particular re-rings. So I am thinking that the formula that Rogers had was that combo of crispness and low resonance combined. The shell wood makeup is not really important to that formula. Some could hear a difference, possibly. There have been some really great scientific threads on shell make up in the past, and whether it mattered. Ace
P.S. You almost have to get back into the debates about wrap covered shells, versus all wood. Then there are those that get into the varnish and it being organic.
 

bkalebjian

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tommykat1 said:
The problem lies in HOW the truth is coming out, with many insults thrown and egos wounded, coupled with both incomplete data and misinformation. This is what needs to stop, IMHO.
Bottom line. Everyone's here NEEDS to take this to heart... I'm seeing a lot of this on both sides.
 

tommykat1

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bizrad523 said:
The problem lies in HOW the truth is coming out, with many insults thrown and egos wounded, coupled with both incomplete data and misinformation. This is what needs to stop, IMHO.
Bottom line. Everyone's here NEEDS to take this to heart... I'm seeing a lot of this on both sides.
+1
 

tommykat1

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Here is a Fullerton BD shell that i just threw away. Looks like birch to me. View attachment 412247 View attachment 412248
Great post, mlucas123!!! Thanks for taking time to "sacrifice" this shell.

The Fullertons went back to 3 ply from 5 ply for a short time. In your estimation, are these 3 or 5 ply? IE, maple/birch/maple, or maple/birch/maple/birch/maple?
 

mlucas123

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Outside and inside of the inner 3 plies.
The middle ply is very very thin.

C9D9ED1D-9E1B-4FF4-B8AC-92ABB0156E68.jpeg
1BE75101-8748-4D55-BC85-C753875094E0.jpeg
073F1E70-08C2-4C83-8FCC-F603F73E7A4B.jpeg
99D6FB86-C378-4663-A6C9-C55415DE8C50.jpeg
tj
 
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