Rogers Swivomatic (first generation) pedal review

JimTPD

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Warning ...The following is partially rant... but If I was put on the witness stand, my credentials would (Might) support
my rant.
Also... certainly the following is full of my opinion.
I...would....LOVE..... for someone to show me how to make the Rogers Bass Drum Pedal NOT play so poorly.

with all due respect...
As a professional teacher with formal training AS a teacher, one of the things "As teachers" well learn about is "Primacy"..... what you learn first, sticks with you.
My two 1969 ( +/- ?) Swivo two piece Bass Drum Pedals... are horrible. And the bearings (bushings) issue is not the issue.
The...design.... is..... horrible.

There are a TON of negatives with this pedal. But for me the most obvious...

1) the "Cam" around which the leather strap pulls, to swing the beater: the design of the cam shape/ rate of rotation at different places in the beater swing......IS......HORRIBLE.... I have two swivo pedals and they BOTH feel like during "the last quarter of beater travel towards the head", the rate of travel falls off, when actually at this point the beater should be accelerating. This appears to be simply BAD CAM LOBE TIMING PLACEMENT. ( Pearl has a BD Pedal with which you can select different cams... look it up.... what a GREAT (obvious) design !!! )
I apologize to those who don't understand Cam Design. Google "Cam" or "Cam Lobe Rate of Change".

2) When attached to the bass drum ( with the mounting plate) the pedal feels as though it is too far FROM the head, which results in the beater striking the head past a perpendicular point. I dont know if this is a function of the pedal or the plate, but combined with the above cam design fault..... the "two piece swivo pedal" is horrible.
The significance of perpendicular striking action is clear when you experiment with raising or lowering your hands/wrists so that your sticks strike your snare drum so that the stick is as close to parallel to the head as possible, vs raise your hands away from the drum so that your sticks make contact with the head at a larger (attack) angle.
The Closer to parallel = the more energy transfer and reflection = BOUNCE
The more attack angle at stick to head contact.... THE LESS BOUNCE

We all (Untuitively) understand this and correct for this by raising/lowering/tilting our snare (stand) and by the way we similarly tilt our toms and ride cymbal.

Rotating the (Rogers BD) vertical adjustment to help the pedal reach the head results in a similar "Bad attack angle" ( but now the error is lateral) .

When Piano Hammers are set on their piano hammer shanks "SQUARE TRAVEL" is ABSOLUTELY...THE....GOAL....and there is a HUGE tonal quality difference between piano hammers that travel correctly (Square) vs not. When improving the tone on a piano, Correctly adjusting "Traveling" the hammers is step two (in hammer voicing) right after "tighten all screws".

2a) The short version
The "Late 1960s/early 1970s" Rogers Swivo Bass Drum Pedal with the pre-attached Hoop Clamp, does not provide for correct Bass Drum Beater Travel, which results in faulty beater angle of attack, which results in poor playability and loss of tone.


so...
3) if the two piece "footboard" is so inferior, then why is this the foot board that was reintroduced?


I started the discussion by mentioning " Primacy ".
I started out playing the two piece swivo in 1972..... and in retrospect I see that this pedal allowed me to develop very little past "four on the floor" with minimal doubles. I was a successful drummer in the Wash DC area but due to the limitations of this pedal, my vocabulary was VERY limited...( I didnt know better at the time) Although I have moved on and enjoy playing many other pedals that are light years better then the swivo, my brain and my limited vocabulary is set. I can "force foot to play doubles" but I have to pull from my cognitive aptitude. On the other hand, I can play six stroke rolls, five stroke rolls, flam rolls etc ...around the drum set....without ANY mental effort as my hands have 40 years of chops becoming more and more fluid and free. positive primacy.

As a teacher and professional musician and piano tuner, when a piano tuning client asks me about buying a "STUDENT" model musical instrument, I explain that "Not only is there NO SUCH THING as a "Student model musical instrument", "The cheaper the instrument you buy, the MORE limited you (Or your child's) progress and future will be.
If a student learns on a junk (Piano, horrible clarinet with bad pads, no tone and nearly impossible to play in tune, horrible bass drum pedal) ... yes I said it ....junk... the flatter and duller their progress curve will likely be. And this impeded progress could be permanent.

The story goes...A music store was sued for stating that they would not work on First Act Instruments due to their poor quality. They were sued and lost...!!!??? For telling the truth !!! ....

I have no experience with the one piece swivo bass drum pedals.... so I have no basis from which to comment.

But if people continue to comment that the "Two Piece" foot board was inferior, is the NEW two piece board better?
If yes, then HOW IS IT BETTER?

This rant is not meant to bait. But after discovering better pedals, I learned how BAD my Rogers Pedals are.
 

Mongrel

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Warning ...The following is partially rant... but If I was put on the witness stand, my credentials would (Might) support
my rant.
Also... certainly the following is full of my opinion.
I...would....LOVE..... for someone to show me how to make the Rogers Bass Drum Pedal NOT play so poorly.

with all due respect...
As a professional teacher with formal training AS a teacher, one of the things "As teachers" well learn about is "Primacy"..... what you learn first, sticks with you.
My two 1969 ( +/- ?) Swivo two piece Bass Drum Pedals... are horrible. And the bearings (bushings) issue is not the issue.
The...design.... is..... horrible.

There are a TON of negatives with this pedal. But for me the most obvious...

1) the "Cam" around which the leather strap pulls, to swing the beater: the design of the cam shape/ rate of rotation at different places in the beater swing......IS......HORRIBLE.... I have two swivo pedals and they BOTH feel like during "the last quarter of beater travel towards the head", the rate of travel falls off, when actually at this point the beater should be accelerating. This appears to be simply BAD CAM LOBE TIMING PLACEMENT. ( Pearl has a BD Pedal with which you can select different cams... look it up.... what a GREAT (obvious) design !!! )
I apologize to those who don't understand Cam Design. Google "Cam" or "Cam Lobe Rate of Change".

2) When attached to the bass drum ( with the mounting plate) the pedal feels as though it is too far FROM the head, which results in the beater striking the head past a perpendicular point. I dont know if this is a function of the pedal or the plate, but combined with the above cam design fault..... the "two piece swivo pedal" is horrible.
The significance of perpendicular striking action is clear when you experiment with raising or lowering your hands/wrists so that your sticks strike your snare drum so that the stick is as close to parallel to the head as possible, vs raise your hands away from the drum so that your sticks make contact with the head at a larger (attack) angle.
The Closer to parallel = the more energy transfer and reflection = BOUNCE
The more attack angle at stick to head contact.... THE LESS BOUNCE

We all (Untuitively) understand this and correct for this by raising/lowering/tilting our snare (stand) and by the way we similarly tilt our toms and ride cymbal.

Rotating the (Rogers BD) vertical adjustment to help the pedal reach the head results in a similar "Bad attack angle" ( but now the error is lateral) .

When Piano Hammers are set on their piano hammer shanks "SQUARE TRAVEL" is ABSOLUTELY...THE....GOAL....and there is a HUGE tonal quality difference between piano hammers that travel correctly (Square) vs not. When improving the tone on a piano, Correctly adjusting "Traveling" the hammers is step two (in hammer voicing) right after "tighten all screws".

2a) The short version
The "Late 1960s/early 1970s" Rogers Swivo Bass Drum Pedal with the pre-attached Hoop Clamp, does not provide for correct Bass Drum Beater Travel, which results in faulty beater angle of attack, which results in poor playability and loss of tone.


so...
3) if the two piece "footboard" is so inferior, then why is this the foot board that was reintroduced?


I started the discussion by mentioning " Primacy ".
I started out playing the two piece swivo in 1972..... and in retrospect I see that this pedal allowed me to develop very little past "four on the floor" with minimal doubles. I was a successful drummer in the Wash DC area but due to the limitations of this pedal, my vocabulary was VERY limited...( I didnt know better at the time) Although I have moved on and enjoy playing many other pedals that are light years better then the swivo, my brain and my limited vocabulary is set. I can "force foot to play doubles" but I have to pull from my cognitive aptitude. On the other hand, I can play six stroke rolls, five stroke rolls, flam rolls etc ...around the drum set....without ANY mental effort as my hands have 40 years of chops becoming more and more fluid and free. positive primacy.

As a teacher and professional musician and piano tuner, when a piano tuning client asks me about buying a "STUDENT" model musical instrument, I explain that "Not only is there NO SUCH THING as a "Student model musical instrument", "The cheaper the instrument you buy, the MORE limited you (Or your child's) progress and future will be.
If a student learns on a junk (Piano, horrible clarinet with bad pads, no tone and nearly impossible to play in tune, horrible bass drum pedal) ... yes I said it ....junk... the flatter and duller their progress curve will likely be. And this impeded progress could be permanent.

The story goes...A music store was sued for stating that they would not work on First Act Instruments due to their poor quality. They were sued and lost...!!!??? For telling the truth !!! ....

I have no experience with the one piece swivo bass drum pedals.... so I have no basis from which to comment.

But if people continue to comment that the "Two Piece" foot board was inferior, is the NEW two piece board better?
If yes, then HOW IS IT BETTER?

This rant is not meant to bait. But after discovering better pedals, I learned how BAD my Rogers Pedals are.
Honestly, I stopped reading at the bolded word "Pearl". Nothing significant about it, that was just as much as I could take.

My impression of your rant was like someone telling me pizza sucks.

Now, I get you may not like pizza, and I support your absolute cosmic right not to like pizza. But I like pizza. In fact-I LOVE pizza. It has satisfed me from the first time I ate it. Just works for me, you know?

You can write all the ingredients down, tell me why they are unhealthy, why they just don't work, why the recipe sucks, and even why a grinder is a MUCH better mesl than pizza.

Honestly, with all respect, I don't care about any of that... Why?

Simple-I LOVE PIZZA!

And I love the Rogers two-piece Swivomatic pedal, lousy cam design and all...lol.

All the Best
 

Kevinpursuit

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Years ago had a Rogers Holiday set new ( dating myself), bought a Ludwig Speed King with the kit. Moved to a swivomatic with hinged heal. Big difference between the two, the Rogers for me was so much better.
 

idrum4fun

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I use the two-piece Swivo pedal with my 1966 Headliner kit. I installed new Torrington bearings a few years ago and recently installed a flexible synthetic strap. It's a great pedal and suits my needs completely.

I like Mongrel's Pizza analogy. Perfect!

-Mark
 

CSR

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I bought a n.o.s. Swivomatic one-piece a couple of years ago for $400. Sold it back at a loss when it just didn’t work for me, even with the good bearings. Too dang many adjustments to fiddle with.

if you drive my car and adjust the driver’s seat up and back, adjust the tilt wheel and move it in, adjust the seat rake, and change my radio stations......I’m lost for at least a month trying to get it “mine” again. I guess I’m a little OCD.
 


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