Sabian rebrand

lossforgain

Team DFO
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
13,309
Reaction score
347
Location
Lancaster, PA
The same rotten attitude and foul language as on the Sabian campaign is all over their page.
Okay, the. I gave them TOO MUCH credit with my last response. This suggests their my either did not do the market research and just fabricated it for Sabian, or they intentionally made the research match up with their paradigm, either by misinterpretation or by focusing on drummers who match up with their impression of what a drummer should/must be like.
 

Bandit

DFO Veteran
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
2,697
Reaction score
523
Location
Canada
Both my kids just did marketing at school, and my one son also has Graphic design. I must ask them both how they feel about the new logo. They are 20 and 23.
 

Mcjnic

DFO Veteran
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
385
Both my kids just did marketing at school, and my one son also has Graphic design. I must ask them both how they feel about the new logo. They are 20 and 23.

Have them look at the Sabian Treatise page and the Marketing company website, also. I would be curious what they see there.
 

equipmentdork

DFO Veteran
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
1,521
Reaction score
187
Location
NJ
It's easy to bash Sabian for hiring these morons, but I'm not going to. Why?

I think it's as simple as Andy having an idea to do something different--which we can all likely agree on. In theory, there's nothing wrong with that.
But, Andy has a business to run and wouldn't have either the time or the resources to do things like research or take the pulse of their target audience. It makes sense to hire a company to do so. It doesn't take a genius to see that they have CLEARLY not done research on any level, or perhaps, a feeble attempt at such.

It also explains why they haven't quickly abandoned the logo/ads, which are probably going to cost them in sales what they paid the rebranders. The rebranders don't understand the product or the market, and worst of all, didn't care to learn. It's obvious to me that they are cocky know-it-alls anyway and are incapable of learning. Advertising isn't running down the street and screaming at people. Sure, you get their attention, but it's not the RIGHT kind of attention. Think of something like The Beatles' Butcher Cover. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yesterday_and_Today#The_"Butcher_cover"

So, while the mistake was not made by Sabian, it was done on their watch. It would seem unintelligent for them to wait for the ads/logo to fail at a retail level.
Isn't that the whole point of social media for companies? To get a fix on what the public feels in advance of such a disaster?

Time is going to tell what happens. I'd call them fools if they continue to discount feedback from the public, no matter what the rebranders have said. To stick this out because they have spent money also makes no sense. They hired people who are, to me, bad car salesmen, maybe even the insurance telemarketers or the cast of Glengarry Glen Ross.


Dan
 

jtpaistegeist

Very well Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
580
Reaction score
135
If that ad company went into Sabian with any of the examples from that website, then I absolutely blame Sabian.

Sabian , more than anyone should know their market, their customers, their vendors. They deal with them all day every day. They field phone calls and emails all day every day.

Reading that article is like nails on a chalkboard for sure. That company is an absolute joke on every level. Abhorrent is a word I would use to describe the attitude of that company.

I don't care for the logo, but its the marketing and lack of care for the customer, artist, and vendor here. Not only that, but Sabian took to social media to attack anyone questioning the marketing. I'm starting to thing that Sabian handed over control of social media to this ad company.
 

cornelius

Very well Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
1,162
Reaction score
71
I definitely blame Sabian on this one. Andy was right to address Sabian's brand identity, but looking at Stealing Share's website, Sabian should not have even met with them, let alone allow them to present ideas - which they could have turned down.

I think both parties were in uncharted territory... They should have hired an ad agency - more money, but you get what you paid for...
 

jtpaistegeist

Very well Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
580
Reaction score
135
I just read a response to a message post on FB with Sabian calling a guys setup "Dope". I guess this is where we are now. Lowest common denominator of professionalism. Almost every post on their feed is uber hard hitting metal and scene drummers that I have never heard of. After checking out the videos I don't want to either.

I just bought, last month, about 16 brand new top end HHX's and AAX's. That'll be it for me until this mess is sorted out.

Before anyone says its superfluous to stop buying over a logo. That is far from what is going on here. Sure I don't want an "odd man out" logo in with the rest. But it's all about this new found attitude that I detest in every way. This is not the image I want associated with my playing.
 

ncdrumr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
181
Reaction score
21
Location
SOUTHEASTERN USA
Even the way that writeup is done is... questionable. I can't put my finger on it but even some of the sentence structure is not quite right. I have to say that reading it doesn't give me any more confidence that the people doing the rebrand really knew what they were doing in this case.

I completely agree, there are some awkward phrases in there. And besides the poor sentence structure, there's this:

We even challenged the popularity of other brands by stating that “some don’t get it.”

No, mate, you're just empirically wrong here. What you actually did was insult the intelligence of a lot of drummers by stating "most don't get it". Has Mr. Dougherty actually seen the re-branding campaign that he's extolling??

It's a pity. They make great cymbals.
 

markkarj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
121
Reaction score
24
Before anyone says its superfluous to stop buying over a logo. That is far from what is going on here. Sure I don't want an "odd man out" logo in with the rest. But it's all about this new found attitude that I detest in every way. This is not the image I want associated with my playing.
Very well put. I have 13 Sabians representing about $3500 in spending. While I'll still likely shop for sound rather than the logo, the new attitude of the company seems to be a complete disconnect from a wide range of drummers (myself included)... which suggests they don't want my business (rather intriguing as the branding company said the new brand had to appeal to all drummers). If I should find myself with a Sabian cymbal with that logo, I'll put acetone to good use.

I would like to support companies that I like and feel connected with my needs. This rebrand suggests Sabian is interested in an audience far different from people like me.
 

equipmentdork

DFO Veteran
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
1,521
Reaction score
187
Location
NJ
I'm still in a "wait and see" mode. They have been a great company, heck, the best--in terms of service, and as I have looked around(which I do anyway), I still think that Sabian covers more sonic ground than anyone. The new cymbals sound great. I want to play them, and no, sorry, that logo is coming nowhere near my kit. Woof, is it bad.

What they do in the coming months will help me decide. Back in 1986 or so, when I broke an old 18" Zildjian medium thin crash, I wasted countless hours playing new Zildjians in stores, and I thought they sounded just awful, harsh, clangy, and unmusical, like hitting a brake drum or something. Finding Sabian was like a musical oasis.

Have they screwed the pooch by hiring a bunch of orangutans with Mac Books to overhaul their image? Possibly. But, I want to see them succeed, not fail.
Indeed, I've seen enough invective online to reverse course...stat. But Sabian got themselves into this and they have to get out in a way that satisfies me.

What should they do? If I were sitting across from Andy, armed not with made-up, alleged "research", but with REAL opinions from those of us who helped put them on the map in the first place, my vote would be to quietly go back to the way things were. Naive? You could say that, but not as naive as thinking that ridiculous "youthful" marketing was going to work. Do a George Costanza. Forget the whole thing, and I think there's a good chance the good will can be saved. I think that if they continue with blinders on, they will begin hemorrhaging customers.

Apologies to any orangutans reading this post. You are clearly more intelligent than they.


Dan
 
Last edited:

markkarj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
121
Reaction score
24
I tried a pair of the new AAX medium hats yesterday. They definitely had more "character" to them than previous AAX models I've tried... more shimmer but still a lot of cut. I am somewhat tempted.

As dumb as this sounds, I was intrigued Sabian had their new logo on in ink, but the old logo in the stamp/engraving. If they were "all in" on all the visual materials, I figured a new stamp would be on the cymbals too.
 

equipmentdork

DFO Veteran
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
1,521
Reaction score
187
Location
NJ
I spoke with a drummer friend of mine last night. It's just a rumor, but he claims there's a retailer who will actually put the old logo on new Sabians.
If that is true, I can't imagine them not taking some kind of action, either with stores who are removing or replacing the logo or just admitting that this was their mistake(quietly) and stopping it. If I can find some kind of verification, I will.



Dan
 

MaskingApathy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
75
Reaction score
19
I spoke with a drummer friend of mine last night. It's just a rumor, but he claims there's a retailer who will actually put the old logo on new Sabians.
If that is true, I can't imagine them not taking some kind of action, either with stores who are removing or replacing the logo or just admitting that this was their mistake(quietly) and stopping it. If I can find some kind of verification, I will.



Dan
Did he saw which retailer this is?
 

Mongrel

DFO Veteran
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
462
Location
South Jersey, USA
I actually just solved the issue.

I own a few Sabians, and I had my eyes set on some of the newer models, but the bulk of my cymbals are Zildjians.

Since we have (quite convincingly) established that concern over logos is just silly, and real men only care about "the sound", and product identity and it's impact on our kit means nothing i the grand scheme of things....

I have decided to remove all logos and corresponding markings from my current and future Sabians, and rebrand them "ZILDJIAN". I am sure Zildjian would be happy to furnish me with a proper stencil.

Boy, that sure was easy!
 

Bandit

DFO Veteran
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
2,697
Reaction score
523
Location
Canada
I actually just solved the issue.

I own a few Sabians, and I had my eyes set on some of the newer models, but the bulk of my cymbals are Zildjians.

Since we have (quite convincingly) established that concern over logos is just silly, and real men only care about "the sound", and product identity and it's impact on our kit means nothing i the grand scheme of things....

I have decided to remove all logos and corresponding markings from my current and future Sabians, and rebrand them "ZILDJIAN". I am sure Zildjian would be happy to furnish me with a proper stencil.

Boy, that sure was easy!
Bet they sound crappy with the new Zildjian logos on. :)
 
Top