Seeking Flat or Smaller Bell Ride Suggestion, but Not for Jazz

CC Cirillo

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Ever the optimist, I’m looking ahead to that new, golden, shining era where I rehearse with my cover and original bands again. These practices are often close and lower volume. The last thing one needs in a garage built for a Model T is a cymbal that washes out vocal and guitar chords. I’ve been getting by fine with some of my lighter As and Ks, but they take a lot of restraint.

I’ve been trying to decide if I want a flat ride or mini cup ride, and am looking for pros and cons of each. Sabian or Zildjian are the brands I prefer. This is not for jazz; it’d need to be an all-rounder low volume for rehearsals covering rock to country to singer-songwriter acoustic—all in one evening. I would not gig with it, just use it to keep time in a setting where we are roughing out songs and I don’t want to get in the way.

I’m not taking a crash to these rehearsals, just a bikini kit with a ride.

One flat I’ve played often, not mine, was a 20” K Custom Dark. I liked it a lot, but of course it seemed one dimensional, and I could not crash it well, and when one just has one cymbal I missed the bell. The only small bell ride—of sorts—I’ve played is my 20” K Con Medium which is just too moody and dark for these styles of music, although it’s a wonderful left side piece. An old A flat could work well in the volume aspect, and I’m curious what gram weight some of you might recommend. Small bells I’m considering are the old Zildjian Mini Cups and the Sabian Mini Bell or Carl Allen. I've never played any of these, so this is new territory. If they are a lot louder than flats then maybe that's my answer.

Basically these are older models, so I’d be buying used and probably not able to hear them in person, which is why I’m reaching out here. Given the state of things with in person live music, I guess I can take my time.

May your your beat be deep, your lottery tickets be winners, and your tinnitus fly away.
 

mtarrani

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Soultone 19" Vintage or Custom flat rides will do the trick. I have one of each and would not part with them for the world.
 
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TPC

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I had a 22" Zildjian K Flat from the 1990's (just a regular K, not K Con, etc.) that was wonderful for rock/pop. It was fairly heavy, but dry, clean, and had the most lovely ping.
 

NobleCooleyNut

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The Sabian HH Vanguard series would work well for you . Nice stick , crashable and not too loud . They come in a number of sizes . They are not labelled rides or crashes because they truly can do both jobs .
 

JDA

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An old A flat could work well in the volume aspect, and I’m curious what gram weight some of you might recommend.
there was no choice 2650 for a 20 is average (have one) lot of cymbal
like Controlled Ping rides.
A Custom Flat 20 is a softer lower pitch, have one 2000g
 
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JazzDrumGuy

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I have a 19" Soultone vintage old school - it's a nice one with 3 rivets. I think most flat rides will be similar.

For my suitcase kit, though, I had an old IAK 18" K thin crash. I put some tape under it and used as a "ride" - great crash, nice restrained ping and a clean bell. That is my rehearsal kit and I don't need much volume (backing 15-20+ acoustic guitars). It was perfect until I forgot it and it disappeared, sadly. My replacement is a 16" Sabian B8 crash. I wish it was 18" and it would work better.......

So try an 18" crash. Put some painter's tape under it and go for it.
 

CAMDRUMS

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I’ve been playing a Dream Bliss 24” small bell flat top ride for these situations and it is terrific. I like it so much I bought 2, but I am now selling one of them if you’re interested.
 

jsp210

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A 20" K Custom Dry Light Ride works great for all styles where low volume is called for. Bandmates love it, practically no wash and nice articulate stick.
 

Rich K.

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I don't have a ton of experience with flat rides and mini bell rides, but, the flat rides I've had (and loved) were low volume and not really crashable. The mini bell Zildjians did not sound like flat rides to me.
The closest thing I've found to the flat ride "ride" sound that also had a bell and were crashable are the Turkish made "sultan" type non lathed cymbals.
 

CC Cirillo

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If you can find one, a Zildjian Staccato ride would be perfect. It sounds like a flat but is crashable. Great all-purpose, do everything cymbal that shines at any volume.
I recall seeing the Stacatto presented by Paul Francis as, maybe, a prototype, but was it released? That is actually the exact cymbal I want. I'm wondering if somthing like a Carl Allen might have at least some of those qualities. Even if I found a Stacatto was being manufactured it'd be out of my price range, I bet.
 

Seb77

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As other mentioned, flat rides rarely produce a usable crash sound.
Not easy to find a low-volume cymbal with both an easy crash sound and not a lot of wash; there are various concepts that try to strike that balance.

The Staccato ride came out of the Dark Thin ride which was completely unlathed. I was about to recommend looking for one of these. It's more versatile than it looks, the crash sound is quite high and usable for a 22" unlathed cymbal (not really thin in the end, it only started as a thin blank I think). The changes that lead to the Staccato ride I think were meant to further improve crashability.

Seems like this one is still available!
 
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multijd

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These cymbals came to my mind as per your qualifications.
 

Mcjnic

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Well ... I sold the Keropes because they were too dang quiet. They have this muffling effect ... like having a bunch of cotton sitting on top of them. They just didn’t have the volume necessary to sit next to some HHs I have. Very nice sounds but they didn’t mix well with the others.
Perhaps put an 18 or 19 Kerope in that spot. It definitely won’t be too loud.
 

Gunnellett

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As other mentioned, flat rides rarely produce a usable crash sound.
Not easy to find a low-volume cymbal with both an easy crash sound and not a lot of wash; there are various concepts that try to strike that balance.

The Staccato ride came out of the Dark Thin ride which was completely unlathed. I was about to recommend looking for one of these. It's more versatile than it looks, the crash sound is quite high and usable for a 22" unlathed cymbal (not really thin in the end, it only started as a thin blank I think). The changes that lead to the Staccato ride I think were meant to further improve crashability.

Seems like this one is still available!
I have all 3 Rarities K Dark thins. A 22" ride, 19" crash/ride, and 14" hats. I was unaware of the Staccato ride. Is the Staccato ride the last video you posted? The video with th 20" prototype?
 

pgm554

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If you can find one ,Sabian 20 inch XS ride .
Small bell,great wash and probably can be had for under a $100 used.
They vary from cymbal to cymbal,so it pays to play it first.
 
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Seb77

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I have all 3 Rarities K Dark thins. A 22" ride, 19" crash/ride, and 14" hats. I was unaware of the Staccato ride. Is the Staccato ride the last video you posted? The video with th 20" prototype?
Yes, search yt, there are some videos on this. I think Russ Miller wanted his Dark Thin 22" to be more open. Interestingly I didn't see a video of a 22" Staccato, but I didn't search for long.
 

daveplaydrum

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I’ve got a 20” Soultone vintage flat ride that works perfect in low volume settings. It’s got a little wash to it but not much and it’s not too terribly stiff that it’s impossible to crash but it’s definitely not what I’d call crashable...so it’s great but if you crash or want a bell, I’d look elsewhere from flat rides in general. Sounds like a small bell might do the trick for you though
 

A.TomicMorganic

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I have an Ed Thigpen flat 22 and an Ed Thigpen crystal bell (Think small bell) 22 that I am looking to sell.
 

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