Should used kits be sold as complete as possible

[aldenyc2012]

I have recently been looking for a used vintage Rogers ( Covington or Fullerton ) kit. I found a great many kits out there. I don't say that this was the rule but perhaps the exception but the exception seemed to be occurring often enough. The kits I am referring to have missing parts, i.e. a BD leg, mufflers, a tension rod here and there, a rim. I can well understand that with older kits that may have not been maintained, things are likely to be wrong, parts missing or even lost. You can't expect perfection at more then reasonable price. My pet peeve however is would it take a great deal of effort for the seller to at least try to find these missing parts, buy them and add them where needed on the kit. I have rejected outright considering a purchase when learning the the TT mufflers were missing. I realize that I can purchase the kit and try to find the parts myself but I think it might be better and provide more assurance for the sale if the seller did the leg work. Am I being too picky???

 

[steambent]

Badges in Mason Ohio has a ton of Rogers sets for sale.

 

[premierplayer]

I have recently been looking for a used vintage Rogers ( Covington or Fullerton ) kit. I found a great many kits out there. I don't say that this was the rule but perhaps the exception but the exception seemed to be occurring often enough. The kits I am referring to have missing parts, i.e. a BD leg, mufflers, a tension rod here and there, a rim. I can well understand that with older kits that may have not been maintained, things are likely to be wrong, parts missing or even lost. You can't expect perfection at more then reasonable price. My pet peeve however is would it take a great deal of effort for the seller to at least try to find these missing parts, buy them and add them where needed on the kit. I have rejected outright considering a purchase when learning the the TT mufflers were missing. I realize that I can purchase the kit and try to find the parts myself but I think it might be better and provide more assurance for the sale if the seller did the leg work. Am I being too picky???

Yes.
People selling incomplete/not correct kits, are are not going to chase parts for you.
No different in the vintage/collector car world.
Kits with all the parts in place will command premium $
There is the occasional "barn find/time capsule" , but that's pretty rare.
You've got to do the work, OR pay the price.

 

[Steech]

Years ago I was in one of the OG NYC drum shops and saw a cool little black mid seventies Ludwig 3 piece: 12x20, 8x12, and 14x14.
No bass drum spurs. The guy had a couple of non-matching Ludwig spurs and said they would fit and I could get them for a deal with the kit.

Then he went into a back room and found a no-name black 8x10 tom that he said he could throw in for another hundred.

And get this. He pulled out a Ludwig badge from a box, said he could put it on the tom, and then I’d have a cool all Ludwig kit.

And this was a Ludwig dealer who prided himself in having great original vintage drums in his store.

I bought the kit, of course.

 

[Fat_asian]

If I was to sell my Ludwig Breakbeats I would probably just sell the shell pack, snare tom tom, tom and bass drum with riser. I would keep all the cymbals, all the percussive instruments because these things have transferable skills! Meaning I can apply them to my new kit! Out of Pete's sake I would give him the bass pedal riser and the 2 original bass drum hoops but I would keep crash, splash, hihats, bongos, wood block, cowbell, tambourine, hand drum, meinl turbo crasher, and I might throw in for sale to him; a throne maybe and some nice dreadlock drumsticks, but that's it! The clamp I bought to mount my percussive instruments over the bass drum was quite original. The local whiz kid/ metal head, techie drum store salesman spotted it online for me.

The kit I'm interested in is a sonor aq2 or aqx? Micro not jazz or jungle. Then I would proceed to deck it out with bells and whistles lol.

 

[amosguy]

I match my offer with the amount of parts/work I am willing to put into making a set the way I want, either to keep or flip. Have gotten some great deal from people too lazy or ignorant to even know what is needed.

I don't sweat missing parts, just price accordingly. Having done this for a while, I know where some parts are available that the average seller might not. Experience counts.

 

[varatrodder]

We’re talking about kits that are 40-70 years old at this point. Pieces go missing.

If a seller goes out and sources each individual original missing part, then pays asking price plus shipping for that part, it would add several hundred dollars more for that kit. They aren’t going to do that when there are plenty of people who will buy the kit with a few non-original parts.

I’ve been that seller who replaced every non-original part and took a loss. And I been that buyer who didn’t care about some non-original tension rods or hoops because nobody but me would know or care.

 

[JimmyM]

It’s your choice to buy or not. Nobody owes it to you to source overpriced parts.

 

[jptrickster]

I prefer originality. seems to appeal more to collectors and gets a better resale. It can get very expensive trying to find factory correct parts. I once built a 50's Gretsch snare started with just a shell......$1200 later a complete factory correct drum.

 

[aldenyc2012]

Yes.
People selling incomplete/not correct kits, are are not going to chase parts for you.
No different in the vintage/collector car world.
Kits with all the parts in place will command premium $
There is the occasional "barn find/time capsule" , but that's pretty rare.
You've got to do the work, OR pay the pprocure the parts ( and they are easy to find )

It’s your choice to buy or not. Nobody owes it to you to source overpriced parts.

If I implied that they owed that to me, that was not my intent. As you say, I can choose to purchase or not. Again, my opinion but when I hear "well thats the way I got it so I didn't bother to find two missing tension rods and I just tuned the bass drum up with out them" I'm sorry .. to me that is just being lazy and not someone I want to purchase a kit from. Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations from those who own instruments to take the best care of them when in their possession and when they decide to pass them on, try to at least ensure, what seems to be an insignificant part, can be sourced and included. I hate saying this because maybe this is a discussion for another thread, put I've encountered numerous sellers that don't disclose everything in their description until asked and it's only then that they suddenly will disclose those issues ..... and yes ...it's my choice right or wrong.

 

[rikkrebs]

It's not always a good investment for a dealer to put a kit back to 100% original. A couple years ago I got a Zickos kit for $300 and put $600 into it to get it almost original. My plan was always to flip this particular kit and in the end I probably made the same profit that I would have made if I would have just sold it as I originally bought it. I enjoy returning drums to their former glory so at least it was fun.

 

[steambent]

A

It's not always a good investment for a dealer to put a kit back to 100% original. A couple years ago I got a Zickos kit for $300 and put $600 into it to get it almost original. My plan was always to flip this particular kit and in the end I probably made the same profit that I would have made if I would have just sold it as I originally bought it. I enjoy returning drums to their former glory so at least it was fun.

Correct. A good rule of thumb. If you do not not already have the parts in your stash just by accident, do not buy a drum/set needing parts.

 

[RIDDIM]

I have recently been looking for a used vintage Rogers ( Covington or Fullerton ) kit. I found a great many kits out there. I don't say that this was the rule but perhaps the exception but the exception seemed to be occurring often enough. The kits I am referring to have missing parts, i.e. a BD leg, mufflers, a tension rod here and there, a rim. I can well understand that with older kits that may have not been maintained, things are likely to be wrong, parts missing or even lost. You can't expect perfection at more then reasonable price. My pet peeve however is would it take a great deal of effort for the seller to at least try to find these missing parts, buy them and add them where needed on the kit. I have rejected outright considering a purchase when learning the the TT mufflers were missing. I realize that I can purchase the kit and try to find the parts myself but I think it might be better and provide more assurance for the sale if the seller did the leg work. Am I being too picky???

Yes.

It's not a perfect world. We do the best we can with what we have and go from there. Old kits and some missing or damaged parts are more likely than not.

 

[wflkurt]

While it's always nice to find sets with all the parts there, some of us collectors do have a stash and can replace what is missing. Of course that never happens to me. I'm sitting on a bunch of old parts and whenever I find something and it missing a specific part, it's always the part I don't have in my stash. Lol

 

[owr]

I like that there is variety in what is offered, and it seems like in the vintage world especially that radically influences prices.


My first 60s kit was a 12/14/20 RB Gretsch - fairly desirable sizes but it was a $1500 kit because it was pieced together and wrap varied slightly in fade. I could care less at the time and it sounded as good as any RB kit in those sizes I've heard.

My 2nd 60s kit was a 13/16/20 Rogers - more common sizes, drums are original (or so I was told, I never verified) and in decent shape but hardware needed cleaning / dawn soak. In the 10 years or so I've owned the kit I've only managed to clean up 1 tom - the muffler was rattling so it needed attention regardless. Otherwise it doesn't bother me, and the kit only cost me about $1000

My most recent is a 12/14/20 Camco. Desirable sizes in near mint condition, but only because the previous owner put in the work. I paid more for these than the other 2 kits combined and am totally ok with that. I dont have the time to do the detailing or the patience/knowledge to source missing parts. The other guy already did that, and I'm happy to pay for the time and effort.


That's the beauty of it - variety in condition/degree of restoration gives the buyer options.

 

[1988fxlr]

When I’m shopping for used items, I don’t want to buy from the guy who put the time into the item to track down missing parts and clean them up and research their value. I want to buy from the guy that wants the space back and wants the item gone with zero hassle to them. Things are much cheaper that way.

All of my used drums are in player condition, and I’ve only bought one vehicle that was safely driveable as purchased

 

[JimmyM]

If I implied that they owed that to me, that was not my intent. As you say, I can choose to purchase or not. Again, my opinion but when I hear "well thats the way I got it so I didn't bother to find two missing tension rods and I just tuned the bass drum up with out them" I'm sorry .. to me that is just being lazy and not someone I want to purchase a kit from. Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations from those who own instruments to take the best care of them when in their possession and when they decide to pass them on, try to at least ensure, what seems to be an insignificant part, can be sourced and included. I hate saying this because maybe this is a discussion for another thread, put I've encountered numerous sellers that don't disclose everything in their description until asked and it's only then that they suddenly will disclose those issues ..... and yes ...it's my choice right or wrong.

Sorry man…I shouldn’t post when I’m in a bad mood. My humble apologies.

 

[bluejacketsfan]

My comment isn't so much about parts, but what does wind me up is when a kit is a bit uncommon and it doesn't come with the hardware needed to mount the toms. About 10 years ago I bought a set of 80's Sonor Phonics without the hardware. Seeing as how Sonor stopped using this style hardware in the early 90s +/-, it's not like one can go online and pick up modern stuff that will fit the mounts.

Yes, I did call 80s drums "vintage". It hurts me too.

 

[el_37]

At the current prices for correct vintage parts- good luck. Vintage Drums don't fetch enough money for most people to bother chasing down parts that are now very expensive.

You could easily spend $600 buying correct t's, claws, leg brackets, legs and mufflers for a 60-70's Slingerland set that you would be lucky to sell for $800-$1000.

I wouldn't expect to much from individual sellers- even some of the name sellers in the Vintage world are guilty of glossing over missing/incorrect parts.

30 years of buying this stuff- it is 90% flippers or guys who just want it gone- expecting full service from either type is a lost cause.

 

[spelman]

My comment isn't so much about parts, but what does wind me up is when a kit is a bit uncommon and it doesn't come with the hardware needed to mount the toms. About 10 years ago I bought a set of 80's Sonor Phonics without the hardware. Seeing as how Sonor stopped using this style hardware in the early 90s +/-, it's not like one can go online and pick up modern stuff that will fit the mounts.

Yes, I did call 80s drums "vintage". It hurts me too.

With the Sonor Basic arm system it's possible to build Phonic / Signature style tom mounts, with 19 mm arms.
A 12 mm arm is also available. You can build something that replaces this:

Did you know?

You can simply build a classic tom holder with our Basic Arm program to fit older SONOR Series like Signature, Phonic, Performer and Force 2000 and 3000 Series

Basic Arm System

The Sonor Basic Arm System allows you to create your own customized individual hardware setup. It is divided into the Basic Arm 19 and Basic Arm 12. Sonor utilize identical ratchets overall for ease of compatibility between the components.

www.sonor.com