Slingerland Mahogany Source

[Slowzuki1]

Hi All!
New to the forum and recently bought my first vintage kit, I have a couple vintage snares. It’s a Slingerland player grade orphan kit from the 60’s. Rack tom is apparently a RK bass and floor is a GK. COB rims. Needless to say it sounds great and I even gigged it last weekend! My question: it’s 3 ply mahogany/poplar/mahogany what is the country of origin for the mahogany in these old Slingerlands? In the 60’s would it be Honduras? I’ve searched on a couple of forums and didn’t find an answer so I signed up to ask! Thanks in advance for tolerating a newbie’s question, now I’ve got another time waster at work

 

[Redfern]

Welcome! I honestly have no idea but there are tons of Slingy experts on the forum. I’d consider your hypothesis to be correct though.

 

[Slowzuki1]

Welcome! I honestly have no idea but there are tons of Slingy experts on the forum. I’d consider your hypothesis to be correct though.

Thanks for the welcome, the insides of these are almost prettier than the WMP. I’m a sucker for that finish

 

[varatrodder]

I'm curious about this too. I would assume it's actual swietenia based on the age of the drums.

 

[Slowzuki1]

One more pic from inside the BD. Love that old logo!

 

[Slowzuki1]

One more pic from inside the BD. Love that old logo!

swietenia that’s a new one for me, had to google it. Caribbean origin?

 

[pedro navahas]

My guess would be Honduran or African mahogany.

 

[K.O.]

Most likely African mahogany. I don't recall if the Slingerland catalogs specified (no one cared at the time) but Ludwig did specify African mahogany (despite often using maple instead) and the stuff Slingerland used looks identical.

It waa most likely whatever they could get at the lowest cost that was still workable for making drums. Almost zero of the customer base was concerned about such details at the time. The fat core was always poplar dressed up with thin inner and outer plies of mahogany and/or maple and kept in round with re-rings.

 

[Boogieman Bernard]

One more pic from inside the BD. Love that old logo!

A lovely kit with much history! This interior logo is fascinating - don't recall ever seeing it elsewhere, even in the Slingy book. I have an RK 20 (undrilled), 12, 14x12 - all calf heads - and a later GK snare, likewise all in WMP. Enjoy playing your kit, Slowzuki!

One more pic from inside the BD. Love that old logo!

 

[jmetatual]

One more pic from inside the BD. Love that old logo!

That is a great old logo, but that tag is almost certainly a post factory addition.

 

[jmetatual]

My question: it’s 3 ply mahogany/poplar/mahogany what is the country of origin for the mahogany in these old Slingerlands?

Member @Fat Drummer may be able to shed some light on this. 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's.

 

[Fat Drummer]

Member @Fat Drummer may be able to shed some light on this. 30's, 40's, 50's and early 60's.

Welcome aboard Slowzuki1, what a wonderful kit!!!!!

Good question and K.O. nailed it already. It is most likely that all the mahogany used by Slingerland was African (Khaya) Mahogany. I know, I know... I'm the bad ol' putty cat and no fun, but I base my guess (and that is all this is, but my day job is timber so it's a pretty confident guess) on the fact that by the time Slingerland started producing drums (early 1910's) the majority of mahogany being imported to the US was African. Honduran was already being regulated by this time and while it indeed was imported to the States, it would have been far more expensive than it's African cousin. Therefore it is doubtful Slingerland would have been sourcing that as an option. African was the prevalent species already by that point and it was more cost effective and more readily available. Honduran would have been used more in expensive fine furniture and highly crafted boats, it is not logical that it would have been used by any of the US manufactures to make drums by the 1900's.

 

[K.O.]

Good question and though some will not like my answer, it is most likely that all the mahogany used by Slingerland was African (Khaya) Mahogany. I know, I know... I'm the bad ol' putty cat and no fun, but I base my guess (and that is all this is) on the fact that by the time Slingerland started producing drums (early 1910's) the majority of mahogany being imported to the US was African. Honduran was already being regulated by this time and while it indeed was imported to the States, it would have been far more expensive than it's African cousin. Therefore it is doubtful Slingerland would have been sourcing that as an option. African was the prevalent species already by that point and it was more cost effective and more readily available. Honduran would have been used more in expensive fine furniture and highly crafted boats, it is not logical that it would have been used by any of the US manufactures to make drums by the 1900's.

I just double checked and Ludwig did specify that they were using "African Mahogany" .

Besides the fact that the wood in Slingerlands looks exactly the same and does going all the way back to the 1930s, would they have used something more expensive than their blood rival across town did? And if they did, not bother to mention it? AND use a more costly wood in an era when nobody would notice or care? African mahogany was easy to work with, was apparently reasonable in cost and worked well with the glue used to adhere wraps. Sound or finish quality would have been way down on the list of factors (if it made the list at all). Those drums do sound awesome, but that's not because they tried all sorts of combinations looking for that, it's a stroke of luck that the most cost effective method they found to churn out drums happened to sound great. If a drum was going to be painted they substituted maple for the outside ply, not for any acoustic merits but because it was a better surface to apply paint to.

It was just a different era when drums were simply made of "wood" and no one really knew or cared what kind. They would have used balsa wood if it would have made a structurally sound shell (and advertised about how lightweight it was).

I realize that I go off on this rant about every other week. I'm sorry. But looking at the vintage drum market from today's perspective, where drummers obsess over every detail about a drum's construction (drums made from wood harvested under a full moon have a fuller tone) and manufacturers comply, is an apples to oranges comparison because almost no one was thinking about drums in those terms before the mid to late 1980s.

 

[Fat Drummer]

I just double checked and Ludwig did specify that they were using "African Mahogany" .

Besides the fact that the wood in Slingerlands looks exactly the same and does going all the way back to the 1930s, would they have used something more expensive than their blood rival across town did? And if they did, not bother to mention it? AND use a more costly wood in an era when nobody would notice or care? African mahogany was easy to work with, was apparently reasonable in cost and worked well with the glue used to adhere wraps. Sound or finish quality would have been way down on the list of factors (if it made the list at all). Those drums do sound awesome, but that's not because they tried all sorts of combinations looking for that, it's a stroke of luck that the most cost effective method they found to churn out drums happened to sound great. If a drum was going to be painted they substituted maple for the outside ply, not for any acoustic merits but because it was a better surface to apply paint to.

It was just a different era when drums were simply made of "wood" and no one really knew or cared what kind. They would have used balsa wood if it would have made a structurally sound shell (and advertised about how lightweight it was).

I realize that I go off on this rant about every other week. I'm sorry. But looking at the vintage drum market from today's perspective, where drummers obsess over every detail about a drum's construction (drums made from wood harvested under a full moon have a fuller tone) and manufacturers comply, is an apples to oranges comparison because almost no one was thinking about drums in those terms before the mid to late 1980s.

Man, you are all over it... I 100% agree on every point. It's like an old car being judged at a concurs event, I hear that the number one strike a lot of modern restoration shops get on scoring is that they OVER restored the car. That it is far nicer today than it would have been rolling off the line brand new! Drummers are the same way, we obsess about the species and veneers used on our beloved tubs while the orgional builders simply shrugged and said, "it's just wood"!

 

[Slowzuki1]

Man, you are all over it... I 100% agree on every point. It's like an old car being judged at a concurs event, I hear that the number one strike a lot of modern restoration shops get on scoring is that they OVER restored the car. That it is far nicer today than it would have been rolling off the line brand new! Drummers are the same way, we obsess about the species and veneers used on our beloved tubs while the orgional builders simply shrugged and said, "it's just wood"!

Wow! Ask and ye shall receive. Thanks K.O. and Fat Drummer for all the info, I didn’t realize Honduran mahogany was scarce as early as it was. Fascinating stuff!

 

[levelpebble]

I just double checked and Ludwig did specify that they were using "African Mahogany" .

Not doubting you at all KO, but just for completeness can you specify your reference on the Ludwig claim? Catalog, year, other print advertising?

 

[K.O.]

Not doubting you at all KO, but just for completeness can you specify your reference on the Ludwig claim? Catalog, year, other print advertising?

I believe it's common to all the catalogs but I looked in the 1971 edition. On the page listing individual toms it states that they are a 3 ply shell of African Mahogany and Poplar. That was actually incorrect at the time as, from 1968 on, the inside ply was almost always maple, but that's another conversation. The important thing here is that they did specify African Mahogany was what they used.

 

[K.O.]

Another point. Honduran mahogany is true mahogany, and more expensive...but would that mean that drums made from it would sound better than ones made from African mahogany? Perhaps they would, maybe they wouldn't, or maybe no one could tell the difference.

The fact is they used what they used, for a variety of reasons, probably mostly economic, and the resulting drums sounded good.

 

[K.O.]

Not doubting you at all KO, but just for completeness can you specify your reference on the Ludwig claim? Catalog, year, other print advertising?

1971

 

[drumtimejohn]

If it helps, here are some more Slingerland samples.

Late 50s

Early 60s

Mid 60s