Slingerland Radio King Dating - So Close (what's it worth?)

SaranacJack

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I think I've narrowed down this drum to the early 40s, but I'm a life-long vintage Rogers player so I would love the Slingerland experts to jump in and lend their knowledge -

I believe the badge tells me 1937-1943 (http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/drcjw/article_1_badges.html) which would give me 1943 as the "youngest" it can be:

Radio King Badge.PNG


I see the Clam Shell strainer which appears to have come out in/around 1940 (http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/drcjw/article_5_strainers_clam_shell-1.htm) so that tells me the "oldest" this snare could/should be is from 1940:

Radio King Clam Shell.PNG


The Streamlined lugs fit that era (early 40s, pre-WWII switch to wood lugs, etc.) as well.

I haven't found much in the catalogs (http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/slingerland_catalog_pages.html) about the bottom of the snare, and what tell-tale signs might be found with this view:

Radio King Bottom.PNG
 

Talktotommy

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I’m pretty sure the super Gene Krupa with the clamshell strainer was only available in seven or 8 inch depth and only with the double Beavertail lugs. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one in that depth with streamline lugs but if there aren’t any extra holes in it maybe it was special ordered -who knows?
 

jmetatual

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Good detective work so far. Per Dr. CJ Wenk's clamshell article your drum is post '41 with the broad base clamshell mount. What are the three extra fasteners visible to the left of the muffler in the last picture?
 
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SaranacJack

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Good detective work so far. Per Dr. CJ Wenk's clamshell article you could further narrow done your drum to '41 - '43 due to the broad base clamshell mount. What are the three extra fasteners visible to the left of the muffler in the last picture?
Great question, not sure. I saw it on Reverb and was curious about the dating - here is the only picture it had of the outside where those holes are:

AF25F1DF-DE1D-47D8-80C7-01EB70D78E9E.jpeg
 

JazzDrumGuy

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I have one of the WMP Krupa 7x14's in the same badge era but it has dual beavertails and the clam. My late 50's has the sound king lugs and the clam but the black/gold badge.

This one I suspect is a newer snare as I didn't know they had the shorter depth in the cloud years, and this one has the older badge.......I guess I need to dig up my Slingy book......
 

Tama CW

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Color of muffler felts.....and a photo of the muffler know could help. Those changed a few times during the 1940's run. The 3rd cloud badge from '40-'43 is very similar to the last one used from '46-'48.
Tan filled lettering vs. black filled lettering would suggest post war....and the last cloud badge style.
 
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SaranacJack

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Precisely why I posted here - I knew the collective body of knowledge in this group would help find the truth. Now... to find out about those three metal fasteners. Were there any common modifications that would have caused these?
 

Tama CW

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Precisely why I posted here - I knew the collective body of knowledge in this group would help find the truth. Now... to find out about those three metal fasteners. Were there any common modifications that would have caused these?
Possibly for a heater, microphone, or some combination. I might suggest it was a 3 hole mount to support the snare drum off something else.....but these snare drums are fairly heavy. Cocktail kit snare?
 

SaranacJack

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So it looks like it sold already - listed at $900... but with 2 offers, so we may never know the sale price. What would a late 40's Radio King with (what looks like) three extra holes/plugs go for on the open market?

Just curious how I can dip my toe into solid shell Radio Kings and pay a fair market price - and not get taken for a ride if it's "players" vs "collectable" grade when I find one. I've been looking for a Cloud Badge one recently...

 

Tama CW

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Clean cloud badges that are all factory correct are probably in the $800-$1400 range. But, there are fairly few drums that qualify. You can probably find a "beater" cloud badge in the $400-$600 range with the shell still in good shape. The pre-War cloud badges bring considerably more. The earlier RK's with the 3 pt strainer bring more than those with the more "tempermental" clam shell throw offs. 3 "non-factory" holes is probably a $150-$250 deduction...depends who is judging.

The drum you were considering with the 3 holes, replaced throw off arm, and altered snare wires was possibly worth around $500-$700. But who knows what they got for it. Buyers looks at similar drums quite differently. Prices tend to be a lot higher overseas. Some will take the leap w/o really finding out what a drum is worth. And if you go by REVERB pricing you'd assume any RK brings a ton of money......which is not the case. If the tension rods are incorrect it could cost you $50-$100 to make them right. Same goes for other key parts like hoops, throw off, snares. Watch out for re-wraps, badge swaps, strainers with mis-matched parts, wrong lugs, etc.

If you just want the 1 ply maple RK sound you could consider the less expensive Sound King - Chicago or Niles "oval" badged ones made from around 1955-1962. They are called "Gene Krupa" snares in the catalogs but it's the same drum without the top hoop stamped as "Radio King." You can find unmolested ones for $400-$500.
 
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SaranacJack

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Clean cloud badges that are all factory correct are probably in the $800-$1400 range. But, there are fairly few drums that qualify. You can probably find a "beater" cloud badge in the $400-$600 range with the shell still in good shape. The pre-War cloud badges bring considerably more. The earlier RK's with the 3 pt strainer bring more than those with the clam shell throw offs. 3 extra "non-factory" holes is probably a $150-$250 deduction...depends who is judging.

The drum you were considering with the 3 holes, replaced throw off arm, and altered snare wires was possibly worth around $500-$700. But who knows what they got for it. Buyers looks at similar drums quite differently. Prices tend to be a lot higher overseas. Some will take the leap w/o really finding out what a drum is worth. And if you go buy REVERB pricing you'd assume any RK brings a ton of money......which is not the case. If the tension rods are incorrect it could cost you $50-$100 to make them right. Same goes for other key parts like hoops, throw off, snares. Watch out for re-wraps, badge swaps, strainers with mis-matched parts, wrong lugs, etc.

If you just want the 1 ply maple RK sound you could consider the less expensive Sound King - Chicago or Niles "oval" badged ones made from around 1955-1962. They are called "Gene Krupa" snares in the catalogs but it's the same drum without the top hoop stamped as "Radio King." You can find unmolested ones for $400-$500.
That’s a very helpful rundown, thank you!
 

Tama CW

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Interesting thing with that bongo mounted on the snare drum. It's probably worth less to 95% of potential buyers with the unused holes. But for that one person out of 20 who is considering a combo cocktail snare with bongo, they might pay full market
value as if the drum had no extra holes. If they already own an original WMP bongo and mount....bingo. But good luck finding an original, period correct, WMP bongo with mount in good condition to mate up with that snare drum. Does a bongo bolted to your snare
drum alter its tone any? Probably. And another factor to consider.
 


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