Snare side experts needed - audio example included

shuffle

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I believe ya hit it on the head!
No pun intended
Get over it and move on!
 

Hop

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Snare buzz isn't the real problem here. I realize snare buzz will happen. It's that sound that happens after the initial hit that drives me crazy. It happens .5-1 second after the initial hit. It's probably caused by tuning, wire tension, type of wires and probably many other things that combine to cause the trouble. I know, I'm totally anal about it and I'm probably being ridiculous. I'd just like to understand what it is that I'm hearing. Surprisingly, it happens most on the Ludwig 403 classic maple snare. I would think my metal snares would have it more, but it's mostly just my Ludwig snares that I wrestle with. Which, is odd in itself. Yes, muffling the snare does help. Maybe I should just get over it and move on. I do use some dampening in sessions. I like to hear a bit of the shell ring as that give some character. I guess I have been thinking I should be able to get a great sound without the odd overtone thing, even without muffling. I watch a lot of tuning videos and I never hear that problem in any of those videos. It's got me a bit baffled. Anyway, thank you all for your input.
Use a simple troubleshooting process. Identify all possible causes; prioritize easy to difficult to test/resolve; the eliminate possible causes in test/resolve.

Easiest way to eliminate the snare as a culprit is disengage it, strike the drum; is the after-tone/ring still present? I think you stated that it is, which would eliminate the snare as the issue. Don't waste your time/money on a replacement unless you're looking for a different sound.

Muffle the snare head by lightly touching it (snares still disengaged) and strike the head; is the after-tone/ring still present? I can't recall if you did this, but this is a quick way to eliminate the reso head as a culprit. However, you may need to come back to this for a subtle adjustment during the tuning test/resolve process.

Next, very lightly touch the batter head with a finger or two and strike the head; is the is the after-tone/ring still present? This will help point to the head, the tuning, the shell/hardware or a combo as the issue. It's easiest to adjust the tuning as you don't have to pull the head off. I would make sure I wasn't tensioned too tightly on the reso head and do a low/med/high batter head assessment (and you may consider adjusting the reso head at the different l/m/h settings as well); If the ring is present at the various tuning tensions then I would look at the shell/hardware (I think you already changed the head and went through tuning???). Look at dampening your hardware, as that is more likely the culprit in the shell/hardware picture. I'd start by either gripping or placing a Moon Gel or two on the batter rim and see if that has any affect. Then I'd move on to the lugs next (not sure what type of lugs you have, but tube lugs may not be a causal factor unless the fasteners are loose).
 

mcirish

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Thanks Hop,
The odd overtone is only with the snares on. With them off or having the head dampened will take away that sound. If I totally loosen the snare wires (lots of buzz) the overtone thing is gone as well. I've got a couple more ideas I will try. I can get around it, but I'm still just trying to understand it. I'm starting to think it might be the way the wires sit in the snare bed. The straps might be doing some odd buzz, but I don't know for sure yet.
 
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Tubwompus

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Apologies if this has already been mentioned coz I only read the first two pages...
I’d almost guarantee (only “almost” coz I don’t want to sound like I’m being “that guy”) that you’re experiencing is sympathetic vibration from the snares and/or snare side head being tensioned to the same pitch as one of the two overtones you have going there. The drum is slightly out of tune, the ability to tell is because those two overtones are close enough together in pitch to generate that wavering ring. If it was in tune, there’d be no waver. And an out of tune drum WILL generate overtones as it is.

So if I may offer: were it I, first I’d get the head(s) in tune with itself (which in and of itself may fix the overtone/buzz issue), then adjust your snare tension until you like what you’re hearing, with the last resort being to then panic if it doesn’t fix anything.
 
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Hop

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Thanks Hop,
The odd overtone is only with the snares on. With them off or having the head dampened will take away that sound. If I totally loosen the snare wires (lots of buzz) the overtone thing is gone as well. I've got a couple more ideas I will try. I can get around it, but I'm still just trying to understand it. I'm starting to think it might be the way the wires sit in the snare bed. The straps might be doing some odd buzz, but I don't know for sure yet.
Got it! I didn't go back and re-read your troubleshooting and thought you were getting that after-tone / after-ring with snares off as well, which is why I was wondering why you were going the replacement route with them. Good luck solving this... I'm following along and hoping for the best!
 

Cauldronics

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Try holding the strainer when you hit the drum, trying to mute it from vibrating. I bet the overtone issue doesn't happen.
 

mcirish

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20200707_220511.jpg

I think the cause of the odd overtone is that the snare wire plates are not against the head. I believe that might be where that sound is coming from. Need to do more tests to be sure but I can rock the snare wires . I even tried swapping out the straps with grosgrain ribbon. Same thing.
 

Seb77

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Those snare look perfectly normal, including the plates.

Here is an offer: can you make a video, or just an audio, of you setting up this drum anew, from the start? Remove both heads, maybe get some fresh ones, and tune the drum up. I'd watch the whole thing, honest, and give you feedback. Other could do so as well. This is a great drum looking proper, and it's more likely that something is wrong with your adjustments of the 20 t-rods and wires. Could be anything, maybe the head is on there unevenly. This would be something new, not a tutorial but rather a "studentorial".
 

mcirish

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I will see if I can get something like that going. It may take a bit as I wouldn't want to use a cell phone as the audio is pretty bad and distorted.
 

Heartbeat

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Make sure your snare wires are pulling evenly across at the ends, and not in a lop-sided way. This noise shouldn't be there. You might ask Cory at Sounds Like a Drum. His Youtube videos are great and he does a lot with snare drums. If you do, let us know what he says.
 

mcirish

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Ok, I have another theory. I measured the hoop. I measured across the hoop at each lug. The hoop is definitely not round. Near the snare beds it is 14" inside. On other lugs it is measuring 14.125". Possibly that is what is causing the issues with this drum? I measured the same on a LM400 and it is perfectly even. Since this drum is brand new, I will call the dealer and or Ludwig. It should not be an eight inch off. I notice that the hoop actually touches the side of the shell by the snare beds. It isn't floating on the head like it does at the other lugs. That odd overtone I hear may be the hoop buzzing on the shell. I know it sounds crazy but I measured it four times to be sure. Thoughts?

I pulled the snare side head off again. It is stuck to the hoop due to it being out of round. Crazy! No wonder I can't get this to sound right. - Update. I took off the heads and measured the shell. It is not round either. I think a call to ludwig is in order.
 
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Hop

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Good find... How far outta' round is... Wouldn't mind seeing some pics of that shell & tape measure!
 

mcirish

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Both the bottom hoop and the shell are out of round by 1/8". I measured across at the lugs. That sure explains my problems. Unfortunately, it will take up to 8 weeks for a replacement.
20200709_205914.jpg
20200709_205926.jpg
 
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mcirish

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I did get a replacement snare from Ludwig. Surprisingly, the new shell is also out of round and very difficult to tune. At least this time around, the hoops are not out of round as well. I don't think I will buy another wood shell Ludwig snare again. I had thought it was going to be great but I was not impressed with the workmanship. I even had to slightly file the snare bed. It had a very high spot right at the outside of the snare bed where the router finished. It was 1/32" high in a point, so the head wouldn't sit flat. The other side has a routing cut into the snare bed. I don't think that one will be an issue. I guess I have bad luck lately but the cheap Mapex I picked up doesn't have any of these issues. I know I could send it back again but at this point I'm just disappointed and will file this in the "Never again" category. Maybe you guys have had better luck with Ludwig Classic Maple snares. I'm not bashing Ludwig; just the recent snares I got.
 

Hop

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Thanks for posting up the pics. I missed them when you first posted until now. It's a bummer having that experience.
Also, I can't understand why Ludwig would just send a replacement without taking the extra time to ensure you don't have the same exact experience. Maybe Ludwig needs to add an additional QC step?
I'd still look for an exchange and detail what your expectations are so they can make it right.
 


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