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Soliciting opinions on a depth sizing issue on a new kit!
- Thread starter nmosko
- Start date
It’s a subtle difference. For me, it’s more that it’s easier for me to get the sound I want out of them. They just seem to give me the sound I want with minimum efffort.
Makes sense. I’ve looked at those INDe Wayfarer maple kits in the past with the shallow kicks and have wondered about the sound and tuning benefits.
cobaltspike
Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't he just use a rack?
No idea. He’s a tone and tuning wizard so maybe that has something to do with it?
My pick is the 14" kick, especially if you gig out, makes the haul a little easier, But 16" sounds great too.
I have the Inde Wayfarer aluminum kit with a whopping 22x10....I can make things rattle.
this kit isn't good....ITS GREAT.
Also think about this.....Aerosmith and other rock bands used to play Boston Garden/Madison Square
with a 22x14.
TAMA STAR Drums - Joe Saylor
TAMA Drums. The Strongest Name In Drums.TAMA STAR Drums( Simon Phillips videos). STAR Drums speak to both our origin and our feature.
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nmosko
Very well Known Member
It is!
Drumbumcrumb
Very well Known Member
Go for the shallower bass drum. Especially if you already prefer 16x16 and the 22x14 comes with that tom.
I think you’ll love a slightly shallower bass drum. As others have said, even 12” is desirable. Shallower is gonna be better - easier to get a good, tight, clean sound, easier to move and set up, smaller footprint, etc. Square floor toms can be finicky sometimes IME, but it’s not a big deal and if you like 16x16 it’s not an issue.
22x14 is still perfectly capable of cannon shots. I could never imagine ANYONE saying “aw man, I wish I had a slightly deeper bass drum” after playing a 22x14. There’s a definite trend towards shallower bd, everyone is cutting down their overly deep bd’s and makers are making more and more shallow bd’s. They started shallow, started to get silly deep in a sorta one-upsmanship depth craze, and now we’re back to shallow because it works well.
Maybe this will help? :
I think you’ll love a slightly shallower bass drum. As others have said, even 12” is desirable. Shallower is gonna be better - easier to get a good, tight, clean sound, easier to move and set up, smaller footprint, etc. Square floor toms can be finicky sometimes IME, but it’s not a big deal and if you like 16x16 it’s not an issue.
22x14 is still perfectly capable of cannon shots. I could never imagine ANYONE saying “aw man, I wish I had a slightly deeper bass drum” after playing a 22x14. There’s a definite trend towards shallower bd, everyone is cutting down their overly deep bd’s and makers are making more and more shallow bd’s. They started shallow, started to get silly deep in a sorta one-upsmanship depth craze, and now we’re back to shallow because it works well.
Maybe this will help? :
depth adds dampening. The deeper a drum, the more projection and attack (loud) and less overtones (dampening), but also less response, sustain and defined tone. As you can add dampening to a shorter kick / tom, but not add sustain and tone to a deep drum, I'd always go for the shorter option. I'd also steer away from all square sizes (to trigger less basketball effect), though technically 16x16 is not square, as the depth is 16, the diameter inside rather 15,5" or less depending on shell thickness.
It is a myth and an uphil battle to fight it that depth of drums add low end. Drums got deeper initially to make them louder, more projection and attack. The attack is increased by decreasing tone, and the fact that the resulting sound has less overtones makes people believe it is lower, but usually they have no a/b comparison; if you dampen your drum a pit or tune it right, you can have a vivid and well defined tone PLUS controlled overtones.
Trouble with deep drums is they also need more bashing, as you have more air to move. Great excuse for drummers to play too loud. The overall sound of a deeper drum set is thinner, and on this hill I will die on. It is common sense to mike such drums with close mikes, to get the bass boost you have from proximity effect, which makes up the thinner sound of such drums. But acoustically you are not getting n optimal sound - at least not what other people consider a good drum sound. Hints: close mic'ing drums by default means we do not want the acoustoc sound anyway. Internal mic'ing as it got popular (now with two mic's if possible) got popular due to the rage of deeper kick drums which acoustically sound nothing like we want them to sound. So the sound engineer gets a nice seperated signal and can make his own version of it.
Trouble is drums that ae built the way they sound best acoustically, taking physics in account, do have measurements most drummers would not even consider to play. So please just walk on, ignore my post and let the sound engineer rescue your sound. Story of my life...
How do I know: I build drums since I am 15, run the second largest drum company in germany for 17 years now. And have such discussions with customers every. effing. day. Some will never believe.
It is a myth and an uphil battle to fight it that depth of drums add low end. Drums got deeper initially to make them louder, more projection and attack. The attack is increased by decreasing tone, and the fact that the resulting sound has less overtones makes people believe it is lower, but usually they have no a/b comparison; if you dampen your drum a pit or tune it right, you can have a vivid and well defined tone PLUS controlled overtones.
Trouble with deep drums is they also need more bashing, as you have more air to move. Great excuse for drummers to play too loud. The overall sound of a deeper drum set is thinner, and on this hill I will die on. It is common sense to mike such drums with close mikes, to get the bass boost you have from proximity effect, which makes up the thinner sound of such drums. But acoustically you are not getting n optimal sound - at least not what other people consider a good drum sound. Hints: close mic'ing drums by default means we do not want the acoustoc sound anyway. Internal mic'ing as it got popular (now with two mic's if possible) got popular due to the rage of deeper kick drums which acoustically sound nothing like we want them to sound. So the sound engineer gets a nice seperated signal and can make his own version of it.
Trouble is drums that ae built the way they sound best acoustically, taking physics in account, do have measurements most drummers would not even consider to play. So please just walk on, ignore my post and let the sound engineer rescue your sound. Story of my life...
How do I know: I build drums since I am 15, run the second largest drum company in germany for 17 years now. And have such discussions with customers every. effing. day. Some will never believe.
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awesome video. I just wish he would have miked it with an overhead so we get the actual acoustic sound of it. Also please note that he already starts with a good sounding drum size: 20" has way less air volume than 22, thus the deeper versions still sound pretty reasonable. Deep 22" kicks pretty much only sound like cardboard boxes unless mic'd (with mic'd i mean using internal mics; the acoustic sound would be captured 1-2 feet away from the instrument, using not dynamic but condenser mic's for capturing the actual sound, not adding to it intentionally). Also it looks like he added dampening material inside, which takes away a huge part of the effect (as I said, deeper drums dampen more, but how do you tell when you add dampening by default?). Plus using a ported front head also took away some of the audible differences, if not the most.
here is a sample of how different the sound can be for room and close mic's. I always tune for the room, which might be odd, but drums are mainly heard acoustically and not mic'd.
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Most drummers are surprised by the low end they have, but this is because they think that depth of drums adds low end. Which is a myth which I said above. The only draw back from shallower kicks is the look (unless you like it), and the stability; depending on how you mount them, shallow kicks can bounce a bit back and forth when playing, especially when on a riser. No big deal for four-on-the-floor, but not so suitable for fast double pedal pattern...
22x14 and 16x16 are classic and have been around forever for a reason. I am sure you'll be happy.
Mike B
Mike B
