Soundproofing a timber shed for drums

riccardo

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Has anyone got any advice on soundproofing a timber shed for drums. I plan to incorpriate 1 airgap, 2 layers of 100mm rockwall, 2 layers of acoustic plasterboard and 2 solid/fire doors all sealed.

Also, has anyone actually soundproofed a shed for drums because it would be amazing if I could go check it out. My mum and I want to see a soundproofed shed, to see if it works and how much sound escapes, and if actually works.

Many thanks
 

dboomer

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I assume that means you are doing the walls and the lid. What about the floor?
 

dcrigger

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I assume that means you are doing the walls and the lid. What about the floor?
If the building is detached and sitting on a concrete slab (or for that matter not detached on a slab), sound transmission through the floor should be scant compared to the walls and ceiling/roof.
 

dcrigger

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Has anyone got any advice on soundproofing a timber shed for drums. I plan to incorpriate 1 airgap, 2 layers of 100mm rockwall, 2 layers of acoustic plasterboard and 2 solid/fire doors all sealed.

Also, has anyone actually soundproofed a shed for drums because it would be amazing if I could go check it out. My mum and I want to see a soundproofed shed, to see if it works and how much sound escapes, and if actually works.

Many thanks
I get too many images in my head as to what a timber shed might be. Get as specific as you can. Overall dimensions... framing sizes... outer covering make up... inner coverings, if any...

And by rockwall, do you mean rock wool?

Just trying to get the lay of the land before commenting.
 

thin shell

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Do you mean a Timber Framed shed? Like a barn? Your best bet is a room within a room to get the maximum soundproofing. I think Todd Sucherman has such a shed in his backyard. Surely other pro drummers do as well.
 

ThomFloor

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If I google timber shed I get one of these.
"100 mm rockwall' is pretty thick - can't be gyprock/drywall, maybe insulation?

pmx030120fealegacyshed-002-1581688843.jpg
 

dboomer

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If the building is detached and sitting on a concrete slab (or for that matter not detached on a slab), sound transmission through the floor should be scant compared to the walls and ceiling/roof.
To do a through job you must also treat the floor. There are basically two types of sound transmission you must consider, STC which is what goes through the walls and Impact Transmission which goes through the floor. So if you go hit that slab with a hammer, you won't hear it at the same distance you can feel it. Impact transmission carries much further.
 

dcrigger

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To do a through job you must also treat the floor. There are basically two types of sound transmission you must consider, STC which is what goes through the walls and Impact Transmission which goes through the floor. So if you go hit that slab with a hammer, you won't hear it at the same distance you can feel it. Impact transmission carries much further.
Again while this all absolutely true. Whether to considering floating or decoupling a floor has to be weighed with a balanced approach. An out building set on a concrete slab is going transmit very very little sound to adjacent structures (or even into the free air) compared to a simple shed wall. This is not a subtle distinction but a dramatic one.

Impact transmission is a form of sound transmissions. I believe, sound travels two ways... Through air - direct transmission. Or by making structures vibrate and pass those vibrations onto the world beyond. Meaning... impact transmission isn't limited to just floors - but rather is exactly the same way a sealed structure of walls and ceiling transmit sound as well.

So in building a "sound proof" enclosure, one must first get rid air leaks - as direct transmission is a wide open pipe. Next each structural element walls - ceilings - floor - must be assessed as to how short of the transmission goal desired they fall. And then a plan is made to bring each element up to the standard desired.

No sense in bringing them all up to varying levels - as the weak link rules the day. There's no advantage to walls with a a great STC ratings and a ceiling/roof with a lousy one. The neighbors will simply hear all the sound coming out of the roof... or a single pane window... or an open vent...

Bringing us back to treating floors... In my experience most small studio in your backyard builders have a hard time getting any where close to getting their walls, ceilings, doors and windows to stop sound transmission as well as a concrete slab surrounded by a stretch of earth.

Again IMO there's just reason to suffer the loss of the vertical space required to decouple a floor if everything else can't match it as it is. But if I'm doing room inside a room, I would take steps to decouple the inner walls from that floor (placing sole plates on neoprene or something) as firmly attaching the outer wall and the inner wall to the same piece of concrete will erode the success of the wall structure.

And again, if we're talking about anything other than a structure firmly sitting on a slab - then it's a whole other story. If we're dealing with a structure sitting on blocks or with a crawl space or any of that - then that floor won't initially measure any better the walls and ceiling and would have to be treated accordingly.

It's always all about dealing with the weakest links first - setting the bar where space and money allows. The higher the bar - the more weak links.
 

riccardo

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If the building is detached and sitting on a concrete slab (or for that matter not detached on a slab), sound transmission through the floor should be scant compared to the walls and ceiling/roof.
Is a concrete slab a large advantage for soundproofing?
 

riccardo

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I get too many images in my head as to what a timber shed might be. Get as specific as you can. Overall dimensions... framing sizes... outer covering make up... inner coverings, if any...

And by rockwall, do you mean rock wool?

Just trying to get the lay of the land before commenting.
its gonna be 10 by 12 ft shed, i say timber just because its made out of wood. the stud frame is hopefully gonn be 75 mm.
Haha sorry mate im dislexic i mean rock wool sorry.
 

riccardo

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Do you mean a Timber Framed shed? Like a barn? Your best bet is a room within a room to get the maximum soundproofing. I think Todd Sucherman has such a shed in his backyard. Surely other pro drummers do as well.
Yeah mate not like a barn like a normal shed ye im gonna do room inside a room for sure.
thanks
 

riccardo

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To do a through job you must also treat the floor. There are basically two types of sound transmission you must consider, STC which is what goes through the walls and Impact Transmission which goes through the floor. So if you go hit that slab with a hammer, you won't hear it at the same distance you can feel it. Impact transmission carries much further.
What does STC stand for? Is that related to Aibourne sound?
thanks man.
 

riccardo

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Again while this all absolutely true. Whether to considering floating or decoupling a floor has to be weighed with a balanced approach. An out building set on a concrete slab is going transmit very very little sound to adjacent structures (or even into the free air) compared to a simple shed wall. This is not a subtle distinction but a dramatic one.

Impact transmission is a form of sound transmissions. I believe, sound travels two ways... Through air - direct transmission. Or by making structures vibrate and pass those vibrations onto the world beyond. Meaning... impact transmission isn't limited to just floors - but rather is exactly the same way a sealed structure of walls and ceiling transmit sound as well.

So in building a "sound proof" enclosure, one must first get rid air leaks - as direct transmission is a wide open pipe. Next each structural element walls - ceilings - floor - must be assessed as to how short of the transmission goal desired they fall. And then a plan is made to bring each element up to the standard desired.

No sense in bringing them all up to varying levels - as the weak link rules the day. There's no advantage to walls with a a great STC ratings and a ceiling/roof with a lousy one. The neighbors will simply hear all the sound coming out of the roof... or a single pane window... or an open vent...

Bringing us back to treating floors... In my experience most small studio in your backyard builders have a hard time getting any where close to getting their walls, ceilings, doors and windows to stop sound transmission as well as a concrete slab surrounded by a stretch of earth.

Again IMO there's just reason to suffer the loss of the vertical space required to decouple a floor if everything else can't match it as it is. But if I'm doing room inside a room, I would take steps to decouple the inner walls from that floor (placing sole plates on neoprene or something) as firmly attaching the outer wall and the inner wall to the same piece of concrete will erode the success of the wall structure.

And again, if we're talking about anything other than a structure firmly sitting on a slab - then it's a whole other story. If we're dealing with a structure sitting on blocks or with a crawl space or any of that - then that floor won't initially measure any better the walls and ceiling and would have to be treated accordingly.

It's always all about dealing with the weakest links first - setting the bar where space and money allows. The higher the bar - the more weak links.
Hiya mate wow!! thanks for all the info bro!! whats the difference between decopoling and floating? and Do you know anyone who has done this? also do you recomend Rock wool as a good insulation or are there some other ones with more mass that are denser?
thanks again God bless you
 

dcrigger

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Riccardo - it sounds like you are building this from scratch for this purpose. My first advice is that you take the time to learn enough about how to do this, so that you are sure you are going to get the results you need - or find someone you can work with who does.

Because it will be very easy to go forward with building something that will be horribly deficient for your needs. And much of this is not something that you can build, then fix. If the shed can't hold the weight of the materials necessary to achieve the amount of sound proofing you need - then fixing it can easily (and horribly often) amount to tearing out down and starting again.

And I'm not talking about building some kind of Stars Wars recording studio - but just a small building that will contain a reasonable amount of the sound of your drums.

So I would suggest starting over at Gearslutz.com and JohnSayers.com - where you are going to find lots of "let's build a recording studio threads and topics and tutorials - keeping in mind the "inside the studio" part you don't care about - but the soundproofing stuff you do.

Because keeping the sound of drums is about the most difficult thing that soundproofing a recording studio has to be designed for. You won't be able to afford - more than likely - doing completely top notch. But if you don't follow most of the basic principles - pretty much to the letter - then you might as set your drums outdoors on your patio - because that's about how sound your shed will absorb.

All of that said - some random answers to your questions...

STC - sound transmission class. Basically a number expressed in decibels that describes how much sound a structure and a material stops/blocks/prevents from passing through. You'll use this in defining your target goal, your plan and the materials used to implement that plan.

Decoupling vs. Floating - IMO not much difference. I believe the former is more technical, the latter more slang. Basically keeping the vibrations of one part of your structure from being passed to the adjacent part. Blocking sound is accomplished by either making something too dense to vibrate (MASS) or by decoupling through use of air, springs, foam (all with varying efficiencies.)

Rockwool and other forms of light weight insulation will do next to nothing in stopping sound - putting Rockwool, etc. in the air gaps between you inner and outer walls will a couple of decibels of reduction. This is worth doing - but only makes up a small fraction of the amount of reduction you will need.

Concrete slab an advantage? It all depends on the circumstances and surroundings. But in general I would say absolutely - for a detached, ground level build on a reasonable budget. You will spend more money floating a floor and soundproofing what's under it (which will have to even beefier to handle the added weight of both a second floor, two sets of walls and two ceilings.). And I keep saying slab - when what may be required is a slab with a appropriate footing. Again this thing will weight the same as a two story 10x12 building, not a single story. And even more so, if you double up the drywall enough to stop the drum sounds.

You kinda of have to look at how your house is built - really how it is specifically built. Play your drums in your house? Is that soundproof enough? If it is - then your shed needs to be built that beefy. You can just put one paper thin wall in front of another one - and call it a room with in a room (which it would be) and expect it to be relatively soundproof. It doesn't work that way.

If I was to build a stand alone 10x12 building in a tract home community to stop my drum from bothering the neighbors... I would start with a concrete floor - build a well insulated outer shell - 2x4 studs (sorry can't think in metric), plywood sheathing, then foam board and wrap, finished with outer siding. This 10x12 shell would need 10 ft wall heights (at least) - to accommodate the internal ceiling).

Then I would build the inner 2x4 walls placed an inch or two inside the outer walls (walls placed on some kind of isolators - years ago I used neoprene, I would have to research now), then create a ceiling using 10 ft long ceiling joists. This puts all the weight of the inner walls and ceiling on floor - that can handle it. As opposed to dealing with floating hangers and suspending the ceiling and all of it's weight on my other roof structure. I'm trying to save money here - both on materials but also engineering fees (along with not wanting to be killed in my studio).

From there - the space inside and between the inner and outer walls gets filled with Rockwool or pink fluffy. Then hang a layer of drywall on the entire inner surface using isolation channels - tape and mud all of those seams - then a layer of green glue - then a second layer of drywall with all of the seams run differently. And tape and mud.

Leaving me with a fairly "sound proof" that will perform better than my house. If of course I handle the doors correctly - don't put in windows - and deal with the ventilation so that I don't ruin all my soundproofing, while also letting air in and out so again... I don't kill myself - this time from suffocation.

And of course at that - the room itself will brutally harsh and loud sounding - so that too would need to dealt with - at least to some degree.

But it would be fairly soundproof - by no means perfectly. But playing drums in it would likely sound no different to your neighbors than playing your stereo or TV at a reasonable volume.

I know this - because I did this at my house in North Hollywood back in '87. Not a free standing structure - used an existing single and half garage. And some slightly different techniques - no green glue back then.

But it worked....

... just enough.

So doing something much less than is going to work... much less.

So anyway long post - biggest point - know what you are doing and how you're going accomplish it before buying one board or screw or bundle of Rockwool.

Good luck - you are in for quite a journey...
 

blueshadow

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One of the best analogies on the John Sayer's forum I have read is think of a fish aquarium except with a full lid if water leaks out of any side it's not water proof, now apply that to sound escaping from the room. In other words you can spend tons of money but if the room is not air tight you'll have sound escaping. Obviously though you have to have fresh air coming in to the room so there's ways around that....all on the John Sayers forum
 

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