soundwise what's the diff btwn a 8x12 and 9x12 tom?

wolfereeno

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I've seen a few jazz sized kits with a 9x12 tom on reverb. I've played many kits with 8x12 and 9x13 but not that size.

On two good kits I've owned over years, I found a 9x13 easier to tune than an 8x12, where I had to constantly fight to get the 8x12 to sound less dead. I also notice on my current kit the 8x10 drum is easier to tune than an 8x12. I realize there could be all sorts of reasons for this. Assume I can tune well, use good heads, and sometimes use iso mounts.

But I was just wondering what the logic of a 9x12 was?

thx!
 

JDA

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The "logic' was to make one "wonder"...then once enticed, buy..

1" deeper sounding (no matter how you tension it) 9/12 to 8/12

There's an inch x of extra air sound chamber
gives it a deeper not found in the 8/12 and vice versa
8/12 has a sound won't get with 9/12
slight but there.
 

Pimp-a-diddle

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In my experience, the more shallow the tom, the faster the response. This is especially helpful if one is using double ply heads.
 

Seb77

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The slightest bit more fundamental tone vs. overtones with the deeper drum. You could counter this by using a thinner reso head tuned the slightest bit higher. Part of the appeal of vintage-style jazz kits is the look, and the 8x12 is part of that.
Jack Dejohnette has played a 10x12 for years, tuned up quite high.
With all other parameters equal, the decay time of a deeper toms will be a bit shorter. More tone in less time, more of a punch vs. "singing" tone.
 

halldorl

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I like the 8x12” for the looks but I have to admit I find a 9x12” sounds generally better. The best 12” Gretsch USA tom I’ve owned was a Broadkaster 10x12”. It had the magic.
 

hector48

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First off, keep in mind that a deeper tom does not mean the drum, overall, will have a lower pitch.
I will just have a little more body in the lower frequencies.
As someone once said in a past post, "it goes boooom instead of boom".
That said, I compared a Tama B/B standard depth tom to a hyperdrive size (about 1-1/2" less deep).
The difference was there, but barely noticeable.
So, when given a choice, I prefer more shallow toms.
Easier to lug around, and can sit lower on the bass drum.
 

Mcjnic

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Well ... sort of.

You kind of have to consider Octa-Bons when culling through the variables.
Same size head ... same or very similar tensions ... same shell construction ... different depths ... very different pitches.
So ... there’s that.

We now return you to your scheduled programming.
 

hector48

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I don't know, are octa-bons the same tension?
And the pitches aren't really that far apart (they are all very high).
Also, those are really the extremes, very small dia and very big depths.
Really not the same as a 12" dia tom, changing depth by 1 inch.
 

Mcjnic

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I don't know, are octa-bons the same tension?
And the pitches aren't really that far apart (they are all very high).
Also, those are really the extremes, very small dia and very big depths.
Really not the same as a 12" dia tom, changing depth by 1 inch.

"same or very similar tensions"
The pitches are pretty extreme due to the extreme depth differences.

All I was bringing up is the data here

... if all of the variables are the same (within reason) and the single independent variable that is modified is depth of the drum ... and the results given are a raising and lowering of pitch ... ... ...

That's probably something that might be considered when discussing the differences between a 12 inch tom that has different depths.

Granted, the difference in depth is 1 to 2 inches ... depending on the toms being discussed ... 12x8, 9, or 10 ... as was brought up in the thread.
Suffice it to say, there will be a difference in pitch ... whether it's a minor difference or not is beyond the color. There will be a difference. It's not relevant that an individual here or an individual there can or cannot perceive the pitch difference. I'm just adding that there will be a difference.

The question was ... "soundwise what's the diff btwn a 8x12 and 9x12 tom?"
My response - among other variables, there would be a very very slight difference in pitch ...

That's all I was saying.
 

wolfereeno

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Thx all. I've owned 6 sets in my lifetime with an 8x12, mostly out of habit.

But I've noticed, for the 4 kits I've owned that have alternate options of either a 9x13 or a 8x10, those drums have consistently been easier to tune and get a good ring (high or low) than the 8x12's. And the kits are good: Gretsch RB & SSB, 70's Ludwig, and a custom Keller kit from Precision. I spend more time trying diff tuning, heads, rims mounts, etc with the 8x12's than the other sizes.
 

ThomFloor

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With all other parameters equal, the decay time of a deeper toms will be a bit shorter. More tone in less time, more of a punch vs. "singing" tone.
This is opposite. The shallow drum has shorter decay time. An obvious example - Compare the decay time of a bass drum with an 18 or 20 inch depth compared to 12 or 14.
The physics for a tom is no different.
 

Ptrick

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There have been a ton of lengthy and heated debates on whether a deeper shelled drum actually resonates more. Contradicting statements from drum builders, explanations of physics. Not sure if it was this board or another.

I have shallow “fast” toms, standard, and power depths on different kits. Not sure I really hear a ton of difference in the actual length of the ring, but the feel and how they play is markedly different. The shallow drums speak quicker, less force to activate a full sound. The deepest drums don’t respond with that kind of fullness until the force used is higher. The short drums ‘feel’ a bit airier, where the deeper drums feel like the sound is going forward more. The shallow toms do feel like the note (but not the ring) is shorter, much like the difference between a 14x5 and 14x6.5 snare feel. The shorter toms also will choke easier with hard hits.

These are kind of vague descriptions, but maybe some will know what I mean.

One inch in depth is probably not a huge deal. Difference between a 12x6 inch deep and 12x12 are going to be very noticeable.
 

Seb77

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I guess the results of dpeths and decay relation differe with tension/playing volume.
With medium to high tension and moderate plaiyng volume, a shallower drum has a longer decay and is more sensitive. A deeper drum takes more energy and produces a thumpier tone - louder low freq. amplitude for a shorter time. With snares off, a shallow snare has a longer decay than a deeper one. Shallow marching bass drums have a long decay as well.
 

What It Is

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I have a few more options to play with in tuning my Tama Starclassic 9x12. It's open to a variety of heads, and loves both low and high tensions.

Placement is a different story as that extra inch is pretty bothersome. Alas . . .
 

mgdrummer

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The longer the shell, the longer the sustain/decay.

I had Premier Genistas toms in 8x12 and 10x12 both set up with the same batter/reso heads, and tuned to the same pitch/tension on each side. The 8x12 had a shorter sustain than the 10x12 but the note/pitch was pretty much the same. In regards to feel, the shorter drum responded & reacted quicker and the deeper shell allowed you to "dig in" to the drum more.
 

ThomFloor

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With medium to high tension and moderate plaiyng volume, a shallower drum has a longer decay and is more sensitive. A deeper drum takes more energy and produces a thumpier tone - louder low freq. amplitude for a shorter time. With snares off, a shallow snare has a longer decay than a deeper one. Shallow marching bass drums have a long decay as well.
This logic a remo rototom or timbale would have the longest decay of all.
All other factors the same (energy, tension) do you think thats the case?
 
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