Stop Saying "Internet Drummers" Aren't "Real Drummers"

Tornado

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Of course it's easier to crank out "good enough" versions of covers on a gig, as opposed to learning a tune note-for-note and practicing it until it's ready to nail for a public video release. That's an apples to oranges comparison, so let's make it apples to apples and see if we still disagree.

Performing a cover song note-for-note, live onstage with a band is harder than playing the same song note-for-note in your bedroom, with the original recording blasting in your ears. I don't see how that's even debatable, but maybe you have other thoughts.

Also, let's not forget that the YouTuber can play as many takes as necessary to get it right, AND they have (and absolutely take advantage of) the ability to make audio and video edits to combine takes, punch in, correct mistakes, or quantize hits (see my last paragraph for an example). The live drummer gets one shot, and deals with many more variables and outside forces (the crowd, the other musicians, the FOH mix, monitors, etc.) Still think filming a YouTube cover video is harder?

I've seen plenty of drummers who could kill it while playing along with music in their practice room and couldn't get or keep a gig because their time wasn't strong enough without the "guide track". I've replaced drummers who could play decently live, but couldn't cut it in the studio (with or without a click), and I've replaced drummers who could play with a click, but when it wasn't there, their time was all over the place.

Regarding the single take YouTube thing, one of my longtime friends taught a female YouTube star who has now crossed over into actual touring, recording, and product endorsements. She's young, really attractive, and a good rock drummer. When I mentioned how impressed I was with her, he said she wasn't nearly as good as she appeared, and that it took her many, many takes and video edits to get a good full take of a song before she would post it on YouTube. Every time the camera angle changes is an opportunity for an edit. And Pro Tools is a thing. What you see on video isn't always shot at the same time as what you're hearing.

Very valid points. Especially with the editing. I've always suspected camera cuts were edit points. And I don't think I have much disagreement with what you are saying, other than I think there's a difference between playing along with a recording, and recording playing along with a recording. Everyone plays along with records, and you think you sound good, but then when you actually record it, the playback tells a different story! I think if you're editing a cover video to Kingdom Come you're not putting the truth out there, and I think cover videos are supposed to be a representation of the truth...otherwise, what's the point? I suppose I'm projecting my own viewpoint in that I would hold myself to a MUCH higher standard for something I put out for public Internet consumption than I do holding on for dear life playing an audience request live that I may have heard once.
 

Drdrumdude3009

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The ability to do it in many, many takes with edits, et.al. IS a factor. But in the end, I just kinda got over the whole youtube drummer thing. I only go to youtube to look at old promo videos for 60 year old bands, anyway. In the end, it goes back to being in the same category as people driving in a car by themselves wearing a mask- it doesn’t hurt me, therefore let them do it to their heart’s content; I will do my own thing and not be bothered.
 

Whitten

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I think if you're editing a cover video to Kingdom Come you're not putting the truth out there, and I think cover videos are supposed to be a representation of the truth...otherwise, what's the point?
Does there need to be 'a point'? If people want to play a favourite song and film it, why not? In the real world of music covering a song usually means changing the interpretation. Is Earth, Wind and Fire's 'Got To Get You Into My Life' anything like The Beatles?
I edit my Youtube videos because I have one camera, and watching someone play drums for 4 minutes from one angle is not entertainment. People watch Youtube for entertainment.
 

dale w miller

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To me they are no different than those who play in cover bands. I guess you can say you are learning work with other musicians, but if they are playing the same parts the same way as the original recording is, as what in my opinion it should be, then there is no difference.

What are they missing out on? Stage fright maybe? Learn what it is like to move gear around, drive somewhere, hurry up/wait, deal with drunks, etc. You tell me.
 
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Houndog

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To me they are no different than those who play in cover bands. I guess you can say you are learning work with other musicians, but if they are playing the same parts the same way as the original recording is, as what in my opinion it should be, then there is no difference. Stage fright maybe? Learn what it is like to move gear around, drive somewhere, hurry up/wait, deal with drunks, etc. You tell me.
Maybe they don’t want to move gear around , deal with drunks etc …….
 

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Could it be that more than a few of these individuals are motivated by the "get rich" proposition of it all?
So ... if one agrees with that premise - that would be an interesting variable to analyze.
How many "drummers" picked up the sticks and moved forward because they envisioned getting rich?
Some may have.
I can assure you, I did not.
I played because I had no choice but to play. I was very very young (preschool) and I hit EVERYthing rhymically ... eventually it was decided to stick a kit in front of me.
I had no concept of money at that point in my development.
So, some may be driven by that. But there are plenty out there that are not.
Perhaps this is one of the divides in this conversation?
Those that understand and perhaps agree with the fiscal return of these people?
And those that do not appreciate the focus on the fiscal return? A sort of prostituting ones art? ... Just in case it's unclear - 3. a person who offers his talent or work for unworthy purposes.
 

Whitten

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Those that understand and perhaps agree with the fiscal return of these people?
You literally need to have millions of subscribers to be making any serious income (not getting 'rich'). Rick Beato has approaching 3 million.

I have a friend who works every day and produces two high quality 30 minute videos a week. He has 218,000 subscribers. He's earning a living and it's his full time job. I haven't asked him but he doesn't seem 'rich'.
Anika Nilles has 200,000 subs, Nadi Bushell about 237,000. The 80/20 Drummer 92,000. If Beato isn't rich, then none of these drummers are earning serious coin from Youtube.
 

Whitten

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Incidentally, it seems impossible to earn anything from cover videos. Only 100% original content. Which is something Beato rails against, but most of the successful music Youtubers don't include any copyright material in their videos.
 

Mcjnic

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You literally need to have millions of subscribers to be making any serious income (not getting 'rich'). Rick Beato has approaching 3 million.

I have a friend who works every day and produces two high quality 30 minute videos a week. He has 218,000 subscribers. He's earning a living and it's his full time job. I haven't asked him but he doesn't seem 'rich'.
Anika Nilles has 200,000 subs, Nadi Bushell about 237,000. The 80/20 Drummer 92,000. If Beato isn't rich, then none of these drummers are earning serious coin from Youtube.

"get rich" ... It's a concept ... an ideal ... not a quantity.
 

Mcjnic

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Who decides worthy vs unworthy?

I thought that was clearly stated.
Any person that stands on that foundation would make that call.
That's pretty much how the definition works.

Are we really going to do this?
I am clear in my statements and opinions.
If you don't agree, fine.
But nitpicking the obvious is not going to be very productive in this thread or on this forum.
 

Whitten

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"get rich" ... It's a concept ... an ideal ... not a quantity.
Confused - you are either getting rich as an internet drummer, or you are making a living, or you are barely earning anything. I think most people understand the concept of getting rich and I don't think many would say that EVEN Rick Beato is getting rich from Youtube and his 3 million followers. I assume he's earning a good living. Internet drummers are nowhere near 3 million subscribers.
 

Whitten

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And those that do not appreciate the focus on the fiscal return? A sort of prostituting ones art? ... Just in case it's unclear - 3. a person who offers his talent or work for unworthy purposes.
It's not 'nitpicking', these are all highly charged, perjorative ways of describing people who earn money from their creativity. I am quite confused how 'prostituting ones art' has anything to do with people who put videos on Youtube, as it is largely a no pay or low pay endeavour.
 

Mcjnic

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It's not 'nitpicking', these are all highly charged, perjorative ways of describing people who earn money from their creativity. I am quite confused how 'prostituting ones art' has anything to do with people who put videos on Youtube, as it is largely a no pay or low pay endeavour.

Have a nice day.
 

Mcjnic

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Confused - you are either getting rich as an internet drummer, or you are making a living, or you are barely earning anything. I think most people understand the concept of getting rich and I don't think many would say that EVEN Rick Beato is getting rich from Youtube and his 3 million followers. I assume he's earning a good living. Internet drummers are nowhere near 3 million subscribers.

Have a nice day.
 

Tornado

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Does there need to be 'a point'? If people want to play a favourite song and film it, why not? In the real world of music covering a song usually means changing the interpretation. Is Earth, Wind and Fire's 'Got To Get You Into My Life' anything like The Beatles?
I edit my Youtube videos because I have one camera, and watching someone play drums for 4 minutes from one angle is not entertainment. People watch Youtube for entertainment.

I don't disagree, except for a very narrow sliver of YouTube that I see as the "YouTube Drum Cover Thing." "Changing the interpretation" is what I do live instead of a note for note replication...'cause I ain't got time for that...and neither does anyone else I play with. Plus, that's boring to me. But there's a not small number of unknown drummers playing note for note covers online, in my opinion which could just be my projection, because it says "look at me, I can do this like x artist did, and that's difficult, so I am also capable". And well, if you AREN'T actually capable and the audio is edited to death...I feel that's dishonest and I personally wouldn't do it. A clear example would be Greyson playing his note for note Buddy Rich and Art Blakey solos. To me, those are clearly an exhibition of both transcription and playing skills, the video portion is an authentication of sorts...yep that's really him playing it. And he's said as much about his videos, they were his way of putting himself out there, because if he didn't, nobody else would. If he couldn't actually do that in real life, that would be fraudulent in my opinion. Even if it was the 1000th take, he still did it. Granted, context is everything. A music video created for entertainment is not the same thing as a video created to exhibit skills. I otherwise have no problem with anyone doing stuff they like for whatever reason they like, that's great.
 


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