Studio Build

[Sinclair]

And you shouldn't have to with what you're building.

My thoughts exactly Dave. If my son tracks a screamin' loud rock trio late into the night maybe isolating a bass cabinet would be necessary. I won't need it for anything I'd be doing that's for sure. Here's the basic layout.
The ceiling get raised in the live room. Control room and iso both stay at 8 feet.

 

[jmele2]

Part of talks about containing bass drum low end was to set up on a riser. Cheap to build and it doesn't need to be very high. Even 6 inches off the floor would help. Your neighbors might appreciate it. For the money I'm spending I'm not setting up on no damn riser.

My wife said 4 inches would be sufficient.

Good night everybody - I'm here all week! Don't forget to tip your waitresses...

 

[Sinclair]

Ceiling raised above original darker exposed beams. We removed every other beam in just this area leaving five for structural reasons. The five that are now exposed will be double the thickness, sanded and stained. This completely changed the feel of the live room.
I'm starting to get really excited about the potential of this place.

 

[bassanddrum84]

Ceiling raised above original darker exposed beams. We removed every other beam in just this area leaving five for structural reasons. The five that are now exposed will be double the thickness, sanded and stained. This completely changed the feel of the live room.
I'm starting to get really excited about the potential of this place.

Are you leaving the cracking high?

 

[Sinclair]

Are you leaving the cracking high?

Cracking high?

 

[bassanddrum84]

Cracking high?

Not sure what I meant but is it gonna be wide open and just finished up
The peak.

 

[dcrigger]

Not sure what I meant but is it gonna be wide open and just finished up
The peak.

I think in the pics Beams 1 and 2, you should able to see the upper set of beams - above the originals that will be exposed in the room - I think those upper beams (and the angled ones meeting them will form the new higher ceiling.

I think technically they'll get some transference of sound through those beams to the outer walls - but cutting the number of them in half and doubling them up, I can't imagine being that significant. And of course it a genius solution - because the 8 foot ceiling would sound horrible and the only other way to do would be to literally raise the height of the entire building.

I think it really looks cool.

 

[Sinclair]

is it gonna be wide open and just finished up
The peak.

The two sides of the new ceiling start four of five feet in from the two walls running parallel to the roof line and stoping about 2 or 3 feet shy of the peak. This means looking up from inside of the room, there will be a flat section of ceiling across the length of the raised area approximately 4 feet wide. We can't go all the way up because there needs to be enough space above the new ceiling to crawl in and install insolation and the thick sheet of rubber similar to what will be in each of the four interior walls and under the floor. It's tricky to explain. I'll get some pictures posted when it becomes more obvious.

Dave, I hadn't thought about the exposed beams being able to transfer vibrations to the outside walls. Interesting. I also think it will be negligible but something to consider never the less.

 

[owr]

Sinc, we had a similar ceiling situation with my room. We started with an existing structure that was a small rectangular room with a flat ceiling, I wanted to raise and pitch the ceiling slightly, just to try and accommodate a bit for having the worst dimensions possible, and add even a few inches of height. This is what the beams looked like:

We added some new horizontal supports farther up the main roof supports and then removed the large horizontals (order of operations matters...) and then framed out a parallel set off of the inner wall studs, making sure they were not in physical contact with the roof with some creative cutting:

Once it was insulated up it looked like below. This is probably not accomplishing as much as I hoped, but even with the slight pitch I was getting crazy flutter echo off the hi hats until I put a 4" cloud above the drums (which used up pretty much all the new headroom). I imagine it would have been much worse with the lower ceiling and right angles.

Your room is looking fantastic, thanks for sharing the build.

 

[Sinclair]

Thanks for the pictures! Looks great. I wanted to raise the ceiling for the same reasons. Also having 3 sides of a control room that should break up standing waves, but the ceiling is the real game changer. I have Spanish tiles on the roof. They weigh a ton so we used more lumber to replace the beams we removed and keep the downward pressure on the walls in check. The build far exceeds building codes.

 

[TPC]

Great work so far, Sinc. Following this thread with interest.

In researching about what to do with the ceiling in my shed/studio, I came across some high-end ceiling treatment in some recording studio magazine that had alternating arched planes. The cost was something like $30 or $50 per square foot! So I went to Home Depot and bought some $0.30 per square foot thin plywood, cut the sheets to size, bent them, and positioned them between the roof joists. I think it looks cool, and I really think it helped to disperse the sound quite a bit. Can't A/B the before and after so it's tough to say what the actual difference is, but ...

Just a little food for thought.

 

[Sinclair]

Wow that does look great. A great idea. Inexpensive to replace if need be too. Is there any insulation behind the panels?

 

[Piggpenn]

Great work so far, Sinc. Following this thread with interest.

In researching about what to do with the ceiling in my shed/studio, I came across some high-end ceiling treatment in some recording studio magazine that had alternating arched planes. The cost was something like $30 or $50 per square foot! So I went to Home Depot and bought some $0.30 per square foot thin plywood, cut the sheets to size, bent them, and positioned them between the roof joists. I think it looks cool, and I really think it helped to disperse the sound quite a bit. Can't A/B the before and after so it's tough to say what the actual difference is, but ...

Just a little food for thought.

View attachment 528910

That looks really professional. At first I thought it was a bunch of bass drums cut up and hung. That could get way more expensive I suppose.

 

[TPC]

Wow that does look great. A great idea. Inexpensive to replace if need be too. Is there any insulation behind the panels?

No, although I did contemplate the idea of putting some rolls of Rockwool behind there to add some mass. (And fire protection.)

 

[Sinclair]

More pictures of the raised ceiling construction.
"Above Ceiling" shows the small crawl space required to add insulation and rubber soundproofing mat.
"Above Beams" shows space between exposed original rafters at 8ft and new ceiling at just under 11ft. I'm hoping this improves the sound of the live room a lot. It really helps open up the room.
"45's From Rafters" shows tie in's to support new ceiling.

 

[Piggpenn]

More pictures of the raised ceiling construction.
"Above Ceiling" shows the small crawl space required add insulation and rubber soundproofing.
"Above Beams" shows space between exposed original rafters at 8ft and new ceiling at just under 11ft. I'm hoping this improves the sound of the live room a lot. It really hepls open up the room.
"45's From Rafters" shows tie in's to support new ceiling.

Don't you wish you could just take a crayon and color in the empty spaces?

Yes, I did take my meds today.

 

[dcrigger]

More pictures of the raised ceiling construction.
"Above Ceiling" shows the small crawl space required add insulation and rubber soundproofing.
"Above Beams" shows space between exposed original rafters at 8ft and new ceiling at just under 11ft. I'm hoping this improves the sound of the live room a lot. It really hepls open up the room.
"45's From Rafters" shows tie in's to support new ceiling.

Been thinking about this more and here's my questions - and spending on the answer my concern...

I can't tell from the pics so.... is your inner ceiling structure (the high beams and 45's) in any way firmly attached to the outer shell (nailed or screwed)? If so, I believe that is a problem. As you will no longer have a "room within a room" - and direct coupling of materials is the most efficient way of passing sound from out to in (and vice versa).

I know of two ways to create a decoupled inner room ceiling....

1. with high enough walls, you would lay (inner) ceiling joists across the top of the inner walls to create a ceiling tied to the inner wall, not the outer structure.

2. "float" the ceiling laid on the inner walls by supporting its weight using spring loaded isolation hangers. So that the only direct coupling from the inner ceiling to the outer structure is through those isolation couplers (maintain zero direct coupling).

I'm no professional studio builder - but my understanding of this suggests that unless that inner shell is sitting there in it's entirety completely floating inside that outer shell - your level of sound proofing will be seriously compromised.

And it occurred to me this morning - that there is likely a way to remove those original ceiling joists - as I had to do something similar in my first studio. Basically the outer shell's ridge beam needs to be supported by a beam strong enough to carry the roofs load. This beam (running perpendicular to the original beams - way up at the top) would be held up by 4x4 posts going all of the way to the floor. Those original beams purpose is to basically keep the walls from splaying outdoor under the downward pressing weight of the roof. By holding the roof up from the ridge beam - there is no longer the outward pressure on the walls - just the downward pressure of their portion of the ceiling's load (in other words, the walls and the original beams no longer have to hold the peak up - the big beam does that)

And it might require three beams one in the center and two splitting the spans on each side. I did it in a single car garage with a 4"x12" support beam about 11 feet long and had an old building contractor friend work out the specs on it. This is major structural re-working of the garage involving tons of weight - but to a great degree you are already doing that with the added weight the new ceiling - but anyway this would be a far bigger change, so advice would be more than warranted.

There would be similar support issues with supporting the inner cathedral ceiling - which I believe is why the isolation hanger solution is so commonplace - easier to hold the center peak area up with hangers than to figure how to support from below without the walls splaying outward.

So again all of this depends on the answer to that question - is your inner and outer rooms (walls and ceilings) decoupled from each other??

If not - I hate to say this - but I would pause a moment and take stock of the ramifications of that. As while I can see you've invested a boatload of time, energy and expense on this framing - but you are still at the stage to be able to fix stuff like this for a mere fraction of what it will cost later - after you've drywalled, chalked, sealed, and on and on.

So I'm really really hoping that I just can't see what I'm hoping is there from these pictures...

(Sinclair - feel free to contact me directly if you think it would be helpful - David)

 

[Sinclair]

Thanks Dave. I really do appreciate your insightful questions. Some, despite my research I simply haven't though of plus this is my first go around with this type of build.
Here are some pictures that I hope address yours and now my concerns.

I'm told that in order for the new inner walls to support the new ceiling one of two things would have to happen. Either much larger beams connecting the walls would be needed or the distance between the walls would need to be less that the current 22ft. I'm having to trust my contractor here as he's built studios before.

So...to offset the fact that the new ceiling is indeed tied to the joists of the existing roof the brackets pictured will be used. BTW the same treatment applies to the walls as well. This will essentially float the drywall off of the framing. (spring loaded isolation hangers as you put it) The rubber pictured is 1lb. What will be used is 2lb. His analogy was your cars engine brackets ability to isolate vibrations through the cars frame. Comments welcome.

 

[Sinclair]

Out line of the control room taking shape.

 

[Matched Gripper]

Ceiling raised above original darker exposed beams. We removed every other beam in just this area leaving five for structural reasons. The five that are now exposed will be double the thickness, sanded and stained. This completely changed the feel of the live room.
I'm starting to get really excited about the potential of this place.

If you removed structural beams, I hope an engineer approved it.