Tedeschi Trucks Band - Amazing show - Drum sound....disappointment

[swayed1]

I saw TTB on Wednesday night at a small (maybe 4 6k seat) arena in PA. First, it was one of the best live shows I've ever seen. If you haven't seen this band they are such a treat to see live.
Susan has an amazing voice and is just as amazing on the guitar. Derek practices voodoo. There's no other explanation as to how he can pull those other worldly tones out of a guitar.
The entire 12 piece band is spot on. 3 backup singers, 3 pc horn section, 2 drummers - not a weak link anywhere.
This concert brought me the most joy of any live show I've seen since before the pandemic.

Now, on to the drum sound. Below is a video from last year which sums up the overall sound fairly well.
Can anyone explain why are there no overheads to pick up the cymbals? It's crazy that there are two drummers and I can't hear the faintest hint of a ride ping.
and the crashes are barely coming thru the main mix. Im assuming the crashes are coming thru other mics from off axis points (tom mics, vocal mics). I think I may see a hi hat mic but other that that there are just drum mics.
There's no top end shimmer, no ping, no bell, nothing intricate that the drummers were playing were coming thru. You could feel what they were playing but you couldn't hear it... if that makes sense.

Why?
Are there just too many high end sources competing in the mix (horns, guitar, vox) so they made an executive decision that the cymbals had to go?

 

[bbunks]

I saw them last Friday (3/17) in Chicago, but from the vantage point of the first row, so my sound was largely direct from the stage. I hadn't noticed a lack of overheads in previous years, but have always felt a good overall balance.

I bet your assessment is right though - there's a lot of sound coming off that stage and maybe they figured the cymbals would get in through some of the open mics.

 

[drummer083]

At the opposite end of the spectrum, I often get annoyed by hearing too much cymbals in the mix at live shows. The overuse of crash cymbals especially seems to be a chronic problem for many players today.

 

[bpaluzzi]

The cymbals are mic'ed from underneath. It's easiest to see on both of the LH crashes (drummer's left)

 

[lamartee]

Yep, probably the hottest live act out there! I've been to most of their October residencies at the Beacon Theater here in the Big Apple over the years and the mix (including cymbals) is always great. Here's a couple of photos from last year and one from '21 or '20. (with Jorma K. sittin' in)
No overheads on the drums. I guess the small size of the Beacon (approx. 2,500) and as @bpaluzzi noted-micced under the cymbals facilitates the sound.

As an aside-clever use of Kelly Shu mic setups!

 

[owr]

Love them, I check them out whenever possible, usually once a year when they come to the bay area. There are a lot of instruments on that stage though, I think they are probably just trying to optimize that full band wash directed outwards. Especially with two drummers, maybe they are trying to constrain the sonic foot print. Always found it interesting they seem to always play the same brand drums, similar sizes. Seems they are going for a big sonic blend.

This thread makes me wonder if VB is going magically re-appear...

 

[Tornado]

Modern productions simply have cymbals more subdued in the mix, and it's become less hip to crash a lot and to crash loud. Sometimes I listen to older recordings and am surprised at how the drummers are crashing so frequently. But then I remember that those are the records I learned from and then had to unlearn that part!

 

[DamnSingerAlsoDrums]

Our live soundguy uses Underheads as well (OH mics placed underneath the cymbals). 1st it makes for a way cleaner look, 2nd it picks up way less hats bleed.

I've always really hated the "antennas" look of OHs live...

But back to your OP, most venues and PAs, even the best of them, have at least a few acoustical dead spots and most arenas, unless pretty aggressively acoustically treated, sound really bad. Bad sound reflexions on cement/metal walls and roof can and do cause all sorts of phase cancellation. You most probably were at such a spot.

 

[Sinclair]

Here's another shot of the underhead micing. This from Columbus Ohio 3/21/23. Another thing I noticed watching the video is both drummers are playing large crashes seen here. Deeper sound and less high end splash. This band is so great.

 

[doubleroll]

Wow I don't think I ever seen a live show without overheads on the kit. Even at the Beacon in NYC all shows I have been to had drum overheads, Lenny White, Keith Carlock, etc…

 

[EyeByTwoMuchGeer]

I can’t imagine that anybody associated with Derek Trucks is anything less than an absolute professional. If something just didn’t sound right out in the house, it may have just been a case of trying to adapt the bands’ sound to that particular room. And if things aren’t sounding good for whatever reason (like the band being crammed too close, or the room having odd acoustics, etc) sometimes you just have to make sacrifices to get the best sound possible given the time, etc.

Listening to the video, I can hear the cymbals pretty well, at least as I’m typing this on a small iPhone. Doesn’t seem too off-balance to me