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The Beatles Created 185 Original Songs. How Many Are Good?

JimmyM

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George Martin replaced Ringo Starr with Andy White on "Love Me Do."

“Martin, who was hearing Ringo’s drumming for the first time, was not thrilled with his timekeeping abilities on “Love Me Do,” the author said. “‘I didn’t rate Ringo very highly,’ Martin said later, adding the condescending remark, ‘He couldn’t do a roll – and still can’t – though he’s improved a lot since.'”

Specific enough?

Nobody cares.
 

blueingreen

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I know I'm feeding the troll but...

A lot of their hits were covers?
19 NUMBER ONE hits in six short years, not one of them a cover.

Ringo sucked? Sit down and play I feel fine at tempo. Right now -- and make it groove. Navigate the meter changes of Martha My Dear or better yet, Happiness is Warm Gun -- and make it groove like Ringo. Play the super clean snare/tom unison fill coming out of the middle 8 of Tell Me Why -- and make it groove like Ringo. With no click-track, nail the tempos of two dozens takes of a song so perfectly that (sir) George Martin could seamlessly edit different takes together. Finally, if Ringo was so bad, what would you change? Be specific. Show us exactly where he played something that was wrong, or just didn't work as well as something YOU would have played.

The more I listen to the Beatles, and learn about what they produced with the crude tools they had available, the more I'm astonished at what they (including Ringo) accomplished. Any musician -- let alone a drummer -- who thinks Ringo "sucks," isn't paying attention.
100% He was the backbeat to the greatest rock and roll songs ever recorded. He was also the epitome of what Miles once said: "play three notes and leave them wanting more"!
 

Grooovepig

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George Martin replaced Ringo Starr with Andy White on "Love Me Do."

“Martin, who was hearing Ringo’s drumming for the first time, was not thrilled with his timekeeping abilities on “Love Me Do,” the author said. “‘I didn’t rate Ringo very highly,’ Martin said later, adding the condescending remark, ‘He couldn’t do a roll – and still can’t – though he’s improved a lot since.'”

Specific enough?

I've heard from a couple of folks that studied with him, that Bernard Purdie can't do a double stroke roll either. But try to play "Home At Last" or "Babylon Sisters" and make it feel that way. Feel and musicality are the yardsticks I'll measure a drummer by any day over technique.
 

Steech

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I've heard from a couple of folks that studied with him, that Bernard Purdie can't do a double stroke roll either. But try to play "Home At Last" or "Babylon Sisters" and make it feel that way. Feel and musicality are the yardsticks I'll measure a drummer by any day over technique.
Maybe we are overcrediting GM and undervaluing Ringo. Just a thought.
 

Tornado

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Maybe we are overcrediting GM and undervaluing Ringo. Just a thought.

GM's opinion could be valid in both cases, as they are separated by time. In the beginning, Ringo was an inexperienced rock drummer. There really weren't many experienced rock drummers. But imagine this: there was a point in time at which Ringo's timekeeping abilities were called into question. Ringo, of all people, a master of timekeeping. There's hope for us all. :). Ringo had the opportunity to sink or swim in music's greatest pressure cooker, and he set the standard.
 

JimmyM

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GM's opinion could be valid in both cases, as they are separated by time. In the beginning, Ringo was an inexperienced rock drummer. There really weren't many experienced rock drummers. But imagine this: there was a point in time at which Ringo's timekeeping abilities were called into question. Ringo, of all people, a master of timekeeping. There's hope for us all. :). Ringo had the opportunity to sink or swim in music's greatest pressure cooker, and he set the standard.
That is what a lot of people forget. There's a saying, "You either have to be first or best." Ringo was first. Nobody's saying he's the best ever. But he set the standard for that style of rock and roll drumming. Not a single person out there played like he did before he came along, but I see millions doing it today.
 

Steech

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That is what a lot of people forget. There's a saying, "You either have to be first or best." Ringo was first. Nobody's saying he's the best ever. But he set the standard for that style of rock and roll drumming. Not a single person out there played like he did before he came along, but I see millions doing it today.
And to be fair, Pete was Best.
 

Redbeard77

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That is what a lot of people forget. There's a saying, "You either have to be first or best." Ringo was first. Nobody's saying he's the best ever. But he set the standard for that style of rock and roll drumming. Not a single person out there played like he did before he came along, but I see millions doing it today.
That's something that applies to the Beatles as a whole. They were the first to do a lot of things in the industry and very innovative in the studio. That's why they're so influential to those who came later (and even their contemporaries), and paved the way for things that artists and listeners might take for granted today.
 

frankmott

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George Martin replaced Ringo Starr with Andy White on "Love Me Do."

“Martin, who was hearing Ringo’s drumming for the first time, was not thrilled with his timekeeping abilities on “Love Me Do,” the author said. “‘I didn’t rate Ringo very highly,’ Martin said later, adding the condescending remark, ‘He couldn’t do a roll – and still can’t – though he’s improved a lot since.'”

Specific enough?


No. It's not specific enough. I'm talking notes played. Where are there any drum-set parts that Ringo didn't nail? Songs that he didn't play on (for whatever reason) hardly qualify.
There are two versions of Love Me Do. One with Andy White, the other with Ringo. There are indistinguishable. Ringo probably came up with the extremely simple part, and Andy just copied it -- and as a seasoned studio drummer, did a good job. The only way to tell the difference is the one with Andy has Ringo on tambourine. The album cut from "Please, Please Me" is Ringo. The single is Andy.
Furthermore, at that time Sir George Martin produced only orchestral and -- strangely -- comedy records. The caliber of a drummer's roll (NOT talking drum-set fills here), is a very important metrics for an orchestral player, so it's hardly surprising that GM judged Ringo on his lack of that particular skill.
As has already been pointed out, Sir George quickly started whistling a different tune.
Finally, I have also read the Sir George based his opinion on an early demo that had Pete Best on drums. Not sure of the accuracy of that one.
 
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Houndog

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I don’t understand how anyone can diss Ringo in any way shape or form .

Three great songwriters and how many producers / engineers kept him on board ??

But yet Joe Schmo dive bar drummer thinks he’s overrated…..

Get outta here !!!!!!
 

Mayan

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I am someone who is in line with the common DFO opinions about Ringo (all the good stuff). But I don’t mind at all when someone else feels differently. Don’t get me wrong, saying “Ringo sucks” is always pointless, but saying that you don’t get it, you don’t feel it the way most do…that is fine with me.

There are a few hugely successful drummers who get a lot of love on DFO and by drummers in general, who I don’t really enjoy listening to. I don’t think any of them are lousy players, I just don‘t get into it like many. And that’s okay, it’s fine to disagree respectfully (don’t say somebody sucks). In fact, it can make for some good discussion.
 

Rimbaud

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I'd probably go closer to 3/4 that are great, the other 1/4 are pretty good and there's a few I can't stand like Long & Winding Road and Revolution No. 9.
 

boomstick

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I've always been perplexed by The Beatles. I consider them to be extremely talented musicians and brilliant songwriters, and I like their music when I hear it but.....it's never resonated with me enough to seek it out, or buy any albums. I don't know why.
 


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