The key to swing drumming

Houndog

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In my opinion and very limited experience swinging .
This “ formula “ or whatever you call it ,
really makes so much sense if you want to swing . He really gets into the “ theory “
around the 18:00 mark .

I gave a try and instantly noticed a difference in my feel and enjoyed what I heard instead of the usual bitter dismay ..

Anyway…………

 

Seb77

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There are many ways of doing it.
As for letting the stick bounce, Jimmy Cobb didn't do much of it, (2min in)

Feathering: Mel Lewis and others have used the beater to muffle the head, not letting the beater bounce constantly.
 

Pibroch

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There are many ways of doing it.
As for letting the stick bounce, Jimmy Cobb didn't do much of it, (2min in)

Feathering: Mel Lewis and others have used the beater to muffle the head, not letting the beater bounce constantly.
Using that tall bounce pattern of course severely limits your sound options too and you can't use it to play a ride angled the way Cobb had his.

That Cobb video though is also a perfect example of using gravity on the quarter note beats, (with his arm drop).
 
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Tornado

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The key to swing is triplets.

You can play triplets and not swing.

What Glass is saying in this video is that it's about the 1/4 note pulse more than the skip beats. Each quarter on the ride is a real full quarter note, not shorter notes. But how do you make a 1/4 note on a cymbal vs an 1/8 or 1/16? Well, he gives some answers with his legato "throw up" technique. Maybe lots of great players don't do that, but he's giving this as an exercise to people who are having a problem swinging. He goes further to have the student sing the full 1/4 length "tah, tah, tah" as they are playing it.

He's definitely not out in left field about this. John Riley preaches that 1/4 note pulse as the foundation. When speaking about time, Steve Jordan talks about playing the entire length of a note, like he learned to do playing tympani.
 

Santino

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As unpopular as this opinion my be (I know...opinions are like....) You either have it or you don't. You can learn by reading books and watching videos but that always sounds stiff to those in the know. I'll be leaving now but I stand by my statement, critisisms be damned.
 

Houndog

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As unpopular as this opinion my be (I know...opinions are like....) You either have it or you don't. You can learn by reading books and watching videos but that always sounds stiff to those in the know. I'll be leaving now but I stand by my statement, critisisms be damned.
And you are welcome to have your stance .
I’m going to improve my swing , your statement aside .

But I do agree with you as well , to a point .

Some things I’ve become very good at in life because I had to have persistence. Being dead broke and poor is something I don’t ever want to live through again ..A lot of years that way will affect you .

There are a lot of ways to arrive at different things . Some we can attain others we never will it seems .
 
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JazzDrumGuy

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Flamdrag

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I totally agree with the quarter note theory. If you listen to a walking bass line it can certainly “swing”, or not, and they are playing only quarter notes.
I also find it interesting listening to different drummers, and how they can each interpret the jazz ride pattern their own way, yet still swing there butts off. It’s certainly not a math equation. Disclaimer, I’m not a jazz drummer, just a fan;)
 

Seb77

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Then there is swing "in two": often a medium swing tune starts off with half notes in the bass, the drummer might or might not go along on the hi-hat(stick) or ride, often with 2 and 4 in the hh (foot). Early jazz styles were mostly in 2 as well, think tuba. Any quarter notes sat lightly on top of that. That's why I actually see this boom-chick pattern as the origin of the swing feel, and the first one to learn. In the swing style, quarter notes were introduced, superimposed as a kind of doubling of the pace. Harmonies still changed only on half notes at the fastest, the "harmonic rhythm" wasn't doubled.

Later styles such as New jack swing or electro-swing combined up-tempo swing with half-time backbeats. Because of this, I propose you can rather equal the swing quarter note to the eighth notes of a half-time backbeat groove. Swing would then equal halftime shuffle without backbeat.
 

noreastbob

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1) Play triplets minus the "two."
2) Employ tasteful dynamics to impart "feel."
3) Imply and emphasize.
4) Enjoy the sweet pocket.
 

Tornado

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As unpopular as this opinion my be (I know...opinions are like....) You either have it or you don't. You can learn by reading books and watching videos but that always sounds stiff to those in the know. I'll be leaving now but I stand by my statement, critisisms be damned.

I'm not going to say you're wrong. Maybe you're right. But who is this helpful to? How would a person know if they have it or not unless they tried? Everyone can improve. Is there a limit to how much a specific individual can improve? Yeah, seems to be. But there's no way of knowing what that limit is. So why even give it a second thought?
 

1988fxlr

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I only got about half way through the video since I’m incapable of sitting still that long. Hopefully I’ll get a chance later. Mr Glass seems interesting and well spoken.

That being said, I think the best way to learn how to get the right feel for swing, or play any other dance based music, is to watch good dancers and learn how they have to move and divide your time accordingly. I was fortunate to be given gigs playing what seemed like old people music as a young teenager with a mostly hard rock background and watching the dancers and noticing how they moved was the key to learning the feel of such foreign to me music as old time waltzes, foxtrots, and basic swing patterns
 

Pat A Flafla

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The key to swinging is having the feel you're trying to express clearly in your mind and in your chest, then singing it through your hands. If you could scat the feel convincingly and entertainingly enough to make a little kid dance, you could might be able to make that particular swing feel (there are lots of shades of swing feels) dance off a ride cymbal. I bet for every clunky drummer who mechanically fails to swing, there's a super-swinging pianist or sax player whose never picked up a stick, but could make the right sound on the ride (excepting up tempo stuff that requires RH chops), because swing is in the mind and they already do it on another instrument.
 

Tornado

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The key to swinging is having the feel you're trying to express clearly in your mind and in your chest, then singing it through your hands. If you could scat the feel convincingly and entertainingly enough to make a little kid dance, you could might be able to make that particular swing feel (there are lots of shades of swing feels) dance off a ride cymbal. I bet for every clunky drummer who mechanically fails to swing, there's a super-swinging pianist or sax player whose never picked up a stick, but could make the right sound on the ride (excepting up tempo stuff that requires RH chops), because swing is in the mind and they already do it on another instrument.

Exactly. And I'd bet almost anyone could convincingly scat swing. It's when we make our limbs try to do things that are disconnected from the internal music that should be playing in our minds that things sound off. Even time itself is connected to this. If someone is having problems with time, develop that fifth limb and count out loud like in The New Breed and see if that doesn't magically make your time better. I think we drummers get ahead of ourselves and the music sometimes.
 


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