The Philly Joe Jones Ride

Seb77

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Have you listened to the others?
https://memphisdrumshop.com/search/K20PJJ (link from the youtube description)

It seems like it's a model of its own and all are around 2150-2200g, close to the orignal I guess, which I thought was lighter at first. When I hear "great all K", and it sounds low-pitched, I tend to think it is thin, and for that imagined thin weight the stick definition seems to be magically clear, while actually the cymbal is not that light, just low-pitched, and the stick definition is just what's to be expected at that weight.
I think I now get what similarity they are hearing, it's in the overtone range, what you hear of the cymbal in the mix. They all have that semi-low wash of the original and the same stick-to-wash ratio. It's a different kind of wash than the mtl or Keropes I've heard. Some of them are really close in that respect. They have a "new" sound to them and they're shiny, I think you'd need a sand-blasted /buffed/patina'ed cymbal to get close to that aged sound with a new one.
 

multijd

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That Old K Philly Joe ride is incredible. The attack and sustain pitches are so nicely separated. Great crash sound.
 

Tracktuary

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I actually don't think the K Cons sound bad. They are brand new pies with no micro cracks, no chunks taken out, no rivets, etc. It's not about recreating PJJ's ride in 2020; it's about recreating what it sounded like in 1960.

Show me an Old K that doesn't have remnants of strips of tape underneath. And a lot of those same old Ks are plenty dry today.
 

Seb77

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To my ear, this really sounds like the cymbal John Riley is playing in the clip!
Same bell tones and wash pitch, which to me is like a fingerprint, it doesn't change.
 
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jaymandude

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I'm no K Con fan at all. Every 20 I've heard or played has sounded terrible to me, And I've had a 20 Bounce and a 20 Ren, and played maybe a dozen or so at sessions or stores.. Dead, lifeless, or just strange. ( 22's are way better in general in that series I think )

That Philly copy is probably the best 20 I've heard in that line. So much that I'd consider it. And I have old K's in that weight.
 

egw

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That Philly copy is probably the best 20 I've heard in that line. So much that I'd consider it. And I have old K's in that weight.
I don't think the modern cymbal in the video was supposed to be a "copy", per se. All Paul said was that the K Con cymbals were the closest thing in the current Zildjian catalog.
 

jaymandude

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I don't think the modern cymbal in the video was supposed to be a "copy", per se. All Paul said was that the K Con cymbals were the closest thing in the current Zildjian catalog.
I'm aware of that. Kind if interesting you pick me to quote, since I'm the one guy who actually likes the new one..
 

egw

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No offense intended, man. Relax.

Was just saying that this isn't a "copy", whereas most of the other similar videos are. I thought it's an important distinction to make. That's kind of the point of the video, as far as I understand. That cymbals with similar qualities to old K's are readily available in the current catalog.
 

Seb77

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I don't think the modern cymbal in the video was supposed to be a "copy", per se. All Paul said was that the K Con cymbals were the closest thing in the current Zildjian catalog.
No, it is a new model exclusive to Memphis drum shop. Check the link in the yt description.
 

egw

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No, it is a new model exclusive to Memphis drum shop. Check the link in the yt description.
Okay, I stand corrected. I hadn't read the description and was just going by what Paul F said in the video. Thanks Seb.
 

jaymandude

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No kidding! That's the real deal right there. Low-pitched but clear, quiet (as has been mentioned) but not overly washy. It is drier than when new probably, but the general character is just something else, that probably hasn't changed. I wonder why they didn't pick a Kerope to compare to this one, the KCon sounds a bit similar in ptich, but to my ears has a different character.
Will have to check with the old recordings if you can recognize it. Overtones/pitches don't lie, espeically upon crashing, they're like the DNA of cymbal sound even if the player/stick/room/mics differ.
Keropes has a softer stick sound/attack. K Cons have that brittle thing closer to old K's. To me anyway. That original Philly cymbal is a funny thing. Everyone oooh -ing and ahhhh-ing, But if they're accostomed to playing Agop signature rides I really doubt they'd actually like it. That's my opinion anyway..
 

toddbishop

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Thats damn close. Nice. Never heard of that cymbal company
I've found several of these-- someone will mention Blakey's cymbal or Tony's cymbal and I'll look for one minute in my own limited stock, and find something that's a credible match.

Cymbal & Gong basically is one guy here in Portland who found a great smith in Istanbul to make cymbals as close to the old Ks and As as they can. I assumed that was a standard product over there, but I went to Istanbul last year, and didn't find anyone else making anything similar... successfully. It took some cajoling to get the smiths to make the cymbals like the old ones.
 

jaymandude

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I've found several of these-- someone will mention Blakey's cymbal or Tony's cymbal and I'll look for one minute in my own limited stock, and find something that's a credible match.

Cymbal & Gong basically is one guy here in Portland who found a great smith in Istanbul to make cymbals as close to the old Ks and As as they can. I assumed that was a standard product over there, but I went to Istanbul last year, and didn't find anyone else making anything similar... successfully. It took some cajoling to get the smiths to make the cymbals like the old ones.
I was wondering about those. Thanks for the update
 

JazzDrumGuy

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I have a 20" K con light that is nice, as is my 22" Light. I have a 20 medium for my gigs I use as it is a bit heavier/louder.

I also have a few Cymbal and Gong "holy grail" pies - 18" & 22" - they are really fantastic. How can you go wrong with that name! I only have one old K - an 18" - if I had its older brothers in 20 & 22, I'd get rid of all my other rides for jazz purposes! The C&G's are very close, though.
 

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