The redesigned A Medium Ride

gezz

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I had never tried one of the new "big A" logo re designed A medium Rides.
Played a 20" and it's a sweet cymbal.. More like an Armand than an A.. medium Rides to me were kinda clunkers.. heavy pingy one trick ponies.
The new ones have a soulful vibe and it's not just the weight or profile. Liked it very much I'm thinking about buying one and a redesigned Thin crash as well.

Gerry
 

bonzoleum

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They're very nice! The redesigned A's are in fact mostly 'Armandified' As. Apart from the hi-hats and some ride models, I generally had very little use for late 1970s to 2012 A Zildjian 16", 18", 19" and 20" crash models (with the exception of my beloved 17" models that had the small bell). And it seemed as the 90s and on rolled around, the As got especially clunky and heavy. The redesign was a very wise move by Zildjian!

Alas-and ironically-I think with the redesign, my all time favorite crashes-the A model 17" THIN, MED THIN and MEDIUM, have all lost the small bell they were up until the redesign, with which they were equipped.
 

Redbeard77

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I have a "new" 22" Medium ride and I love the blend of wash and definition. It's such a pleasant sounding cymbal.
My only complaint is the bell isn't as cutting as I'd like. In live (un-mic'ed) situations I have to use the shoulder or shaft of my stick to make the bell heard.
 

idrum4fun

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Good to hear all the good things about the new "A" line of cymbals! I haven't been impressed with the A's for a long time now and use my late 60's and early 70's A's. Looks like it's time to give the new A's a listen!

-Mark
 

FFR428

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The redesigned thin crashes are nice too. I have a 20" and 18". I was looking for thin vintage A crashes without much luck. So took a chance and bought these. Very happy with them. Great cymbals.
 

jb78

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How would you describe the "darkness" of these ride cymbals as compared to other new ride cymbals - e.g., K dark medium; Bosphorus traditional; Istanbul traditional; etc.?
 

gezz

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The touch is very defined... very warm and subtle.. it bares NO sonic similarity to the old A medium Rides.. being that they were way heavier.. brighter and pronounced.
These have a sweet, mellow but tasty stick. To me this is very "602" like but with more presence AND very Armand ish
..
Extremely versatile and way impressive.. In musicality terms compared to my last A medium Ride the void is as wide as the grand canyon.
 

rondrums51

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Zildjian always talks about "replicating" the old cymbals from the 50's and 60's. As a guy who actually played those old cymbals for years, I'm skeptical.

When Zildjian came out with K cymbals in the early 80's, they sounded nothing like real old Turkish K's. Not even close. The Armand "Beautiful, Baby" cymbals were supposed to sound like old 50's A's. Not even close.

Then, they came out with the K Constantinople cymbals, which were REALLY supposed to sound like old Turkish K's. Nope. The bells were too thick and the cymbal profile was wrong. Then, the Kerope series. Close, but still not exactly the same.

You really can't replicate 50-60 year old cymbals because the mechanics are so different. Different lathing, different hammering, different everything. No to mention the aging of the metal.

I'm happy to hear that Zildjian is getting back to thinner cymbals with a pretty sound. But if you REALLY want to hear that classic old sound, find a good 50's or 60's cymbal.

I realize that people want new cymbals, not 60 year old ones. I'm not knocking the new A's. If you like them, enjoy! :occasion5:
 

zenstat

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gezz said:
The touch is very defined... very warm and subtle.. it bares NO sonic similarity to the old A medium Rides.. being that they were way heavier.. brighter and pronounced.
These have a sweet, mellow but tasty stick. To me this is very "602" like but with more presence AND very Armand ish
..
Extremely versatile and way impressive.. In musicality terms compared to my last A medium Ride the void is as wide as the grand canyon.
The 2013 redesign did specific things in terms of taper, profile, bell morphology, and weights. There were changes over the decades which means that you might want to be a bit more specific when you make a statement like "no sonic similarity to the old A medium Rides". When you say "old" are you speaking about the early 50s, mid 50s, late 50s, early 60s, later 60s-70s, 80s, 90s- 2012? I haven't plotted data on later periods for 20" rides, but this includes T = late 40s early 50s, L = mid 50s, S = late 50s. I also annotated this with the ballpark for where the newly launched A Avedis sit:


You can check up on what Paul Francis had to say about the model changes here:

http://black.net.nz/avedis/a-zil-2013-changes.html

via my site:

http://black.net.nz/avedis/avedis-gallery.html#AZ2013

I'd say that Zildjian did a good job of resetting the weight and sonic parameters in the 2013 rework to be more like the 1960s Avedis Zildjians. I've verified what Paul Francis says about the weight reset in the case of New Beats (bottoms were not reset), and they give a good example of what happened in later decades:





I don't agree with a claim that there is "NO sonic similarity" because it is too absolutist. I'd say there are underlying sonic similarities. I like the 2013 and later ones more.

I can usually recognize a 20" A Medium Ride being played even if it is from the 1990s or 2000s, and I wouldn't mix it up with a 1950s K Zildjian from Istanbul nor a Paiste Sound Creation Dark Ride. So at some level the different styles of A Zildjian Medium Rides sound sonically similar. For me, it's a question of what level of similarity. It is not a question of NO similarity in my book. But perhaps you just meant to say "the 2013 relaunch changed them a lot and in a direction I really like". I could certainly agree with that. :happy11:

Further discussion of these matters (in the context of the A Avedis launch) which also contains me railing against absolutist statements of the "sounds nothing like" or "no similarity" style:

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/128329-avedis-videos-at-mds/
 

gezz

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I see what you mean and indeed I DID put it wrong.. simply in my opinion the newer 2013 onwards sound great. Your expertise and knowledge are quite breathtaking sir and you know far more than I ever will..

Gerry
 

SKLee

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I have one (2013 20" A Zildjian Medium Ride) and I like playing them across all genres, but the stick definition is too "ping" IMO for jazz. Then again it can change drastically depending on the tip of the stick.

What do people think of this cymbal for jazz?
 

Markkuliini

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stickchopper said:
MAn, Zildjian sure does get raked over the coals around here.

I think the complaints are more about the marketing that the cymbals, no ? I find all their newer stuff to be really really good. But no way would I think it sounds like an older Zildjian. I mean, did you really expect that ? Really ?
Complaining is a hobby for some people. :)
 

zenstat

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stickchopper said:
MAn, Zildjian sure does get raked over the coals around here.

I think the complaints are more about the marketing that the cymbals, no ? I find all their newer stuff to be really really good. But no way would I think it sounds like an older Zildjian. I mean, did you really expect that ? Really ?
I often wonder if the level of complaints is analogous to people complaining about Microsoft. The dominant player in any particular market cops the most flak. I have that in mind as a sort of "background level" of complaining given the market dominance of Zildjian.

I don't expect any brand new cymbal to sound 95% similar to any particular 30+ year old cymbal. Despite artificial aging via a patina process, the older cymbal is older. No way around that. What I'm not able to do is compare the sound of the 30+ year old cymbal when it was brand new, with a new clone of the same cymbal. If you have a time machine you could go back and do it. No time machine on the event horizon yet. :icon_e_wink:

My friend Craig Lauritsen has what I think is a good example of cloning a Trans Stamp:


So where would you put this attempt on the full scale?

0% Sounds Nothing Like/No Similarity
10% similar, a bit closer than any old random cymbal you might compare
20% similar, a few people could hear these as both being Trans Stamps in blind listening
:
:
50% half way there, and it might be mistaken for a Trans Stamp half the time in blind listening
:
:
90% I could take either to a gig and be satisfied
95% I'd take the new one to the gig and keep the original safe at home
99% I'll sell the original and just keep the clone
100% I can't tell them apart
 
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felis

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I like every redesigned A I've tried. I haven't heard a real clinker in the bunch yet.
 

712drummer

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I love my 20" redesign Medium ride. Sounds as good as or better than all of the 60's rides I've owned.
Great crash sound as well.
 

SKLee

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To others who have owned/played this cymbal, do you guys think it could do jazz for you guys?
 

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