The return of p00der!

MonkeyGrass

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Boy you guys sure liked to get sidetracked on irrelevant stuff...

This is NOT about "parts stripping" or the moral implications thereof. That's another discussion completely.

This is about a KNOWN shady eBayer, who changes usernames, uses multiple accounts, and tries to obtain items from sellers who have BLOCKED their other known alias'.

imthebeat is either Jonas/Gayle or one of their cronies, or has ZERO idea what the #*$^ he is talking about. MANY of us have burned by this person's despicable business practices, myself being one. What and how pOODer/leecountymusic sells is none of my business. What IS my business is when they become a buyer of one of MY items, then uses the feedback system and unproven "damage claims" to refute payment and get money refunded, thereby attempting to buy your item at a reduced price under the threat of negative feedback. It has happened SO MANY TIMES it's not even a dispute. Most everyone here knows to deal with these folk at your own risk. You have an extremely high chance of being ripped off on EITHER SIDE of the deal, either getting junked parts for premium prices, or having your own items devalued and dealing with PayPal and buyer disputes to end the nightmare.

Haven't we all read this novel already?
 

red66charger

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MonkeyGrass said:
Boy you guys sure liked to get sidetracked on irrelevant stuff...

This is NOT about "parts stripping" or the moral implications thereof. That's another discussion completely.

This is about a KNOWN shady eBayer, who changes usernames, uses multiple accounts, and tries to obtain items from sellers who have BLOCKED their other known alias'.
Fair enough :thumbup:

I suppose the only thing I would add is that, individually, we can have more than one reason to not want to transact with someone. You may not care "what and how" someone sells, but someone else might. (Although I doubt you'd willing buy from someone who, hypothetically, was selling stolen merchandise) Also, in as much as using multiple aliases to circumvent eBay's seller policy's may be considered a "shady business practice", some of us also feel stripping perfectly good, original vintage instruments to be a "shady business practice" as well (not irrelevant in my book).

But you are right, the OP did not insinuate "stripping" to be the reason he cancelled the auction.
 

imthebeat

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MonkeyGrass said:
Boy you guys sure liked to get sidetracked on irrelevant stuff...

This is NOT about "parts stripping" or the moral implications thereof. That's another discussion completely.

This is about a KNOWN shady eBayer, who changes usernames, uses multiple accounts, and tries to obtain items from sellers who have BLOCKED their other known alias'.

imthebeat is either Jonas/Gayle or one of their cronies, or has ZERO idea what the #*$^ he is talking about. MANY of us have burned by this person's despicable business practices, myself being one. What and how pOODer/leecountymusic sells is none of my business. What IS my business is when they become a buyer of one of MY items, then uses the feedback system and unproven "damage claims" to refute payment and get money refunded, thereby attempting to buy your item at a reduced price under the threat of negative feedback. It has happened SO MANY TIMES it's not even a dispute. Most everyone here knows to deal with these folk at your own risk. You have an extremely high chance of being ripped off on EITHER SIDE of the deal, either getting junked parts for premium prices, or having your own items devalued and dealing with PayPal and buyer disputes to end the nightmare.

Haven't we all read this novel already?
I'm not Jonas/Gayle or one of his "cronies". I've never met him or talked with him. I'm an eBay seller since 1999 with a perfect feedback record, no negative feedback rating in 15 years. I've had several successful business transactions with forum members here and on eBay. If you spent a couple of minutes and checked my user name on eBay, you would see I operate out of NY, specialize selling Tama drums, and obviously have nothing to do with the sellers in question. A few other posters in this thread have made the same careless (I'm being nice here) mistake.

Jonas Aronson and Gayle Davis are not the same person, they are a married couple living in Ft. Myers, FL. Here are their Facebook pages:
https://www.facebook.com/jonas.aronson.14
https://www.facebook.com/gayle.davis.3998
Aronson is registered with the State of Florida as the principal of leecountymusic LLC

My only contact with this company is through eBay transactions, they purchased a couple of drums from me last year, paid the invoice and left positive feedback. I bought one item from them last year, it was shipped and arrived without any problem. I also had two eBay messages left for me concerning items I had listed from the seller, the correspondence was professional and I was not threatened in any way.

Now, the situation you describe in your post is clearly extortion and is in fact a federal crime:
"What IS my business is when they become a buyer of one of MY items, then uses the feedback system and unproven "damage claims" to refute payment and get money refunded, thereby attempting to buy your item at a reduced price under the threat of negative feedback."

At the very least, it is obviously against eBay policy as stated here:
"Making unreasonable or excessive demands or demanding a partial refund or discount is not allowed. Using the threat of negative Feedback, low detailed seller ratings, or buyer protection cases to make such demands is considered extortion and is not allowed.

Sellers should Report a Buyer:
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including Feedback removal, cancellation of cases in the Resolution Center, limits on account privileges (such as use of the eBay Buyer Protection program), limits on overall buying activity, and account suspension.

I know firsthand that eBay will enforce its Buyers practices policy: I used Report a Buyer twice last year, once because a buyer sent two messages through the eBay message system harassing me using vulgar language, and another buyer threatened to retaliate against me by buying an item and intentionally leaving negative feedback. Both times the buyer accounts were suspended after I filed a report and eBay conducted an investigation.

Also note: the messages sent through the eBay message center are not private, customer service representatives can view sent and received messages without your permission, there is a record of all correspondence between members.

In the above post you write:
"MANY of us have burned by this person's despicable business practices, myself being one."
"It has happened SO MANY TIMES it's not even a dispute."

You are not the only one who has described the "despicable business practices" of this seller/buyer on this and the other vintage drum forum, through either an actual personal encounter or hearsay. After reading most of the accounts from the drum forums they are a confusing combination of mostly truth, but mixed with rumors and misinformation.

I'm assuming he's not confining his tactics just to members of vintage drum forums, if you extrapolate and take into account the thousands of eBay users, there should be hundreds of victims. Sadly, as far as I can tell, and please correct me if I'm wrong, this person has yet to have any of his eBay accounts suspended or revoked, and has very few negative feedback ratings, bad behavior has apparently gone unpunished.

If he is the dirty, low down, rotten scoundrel portrayed here, IMO I can draw a couple of possible conclusions as to why his business continues to operate without any apparent sanctions,

1) none of his eBay victims have taken the remedial actions available to them, extorted sellers by using Report a Buyer, or buyers leaving negative feedback for receiving substandard/damaged drum parts. I don't want to blame the victim, but it's very frustrating when people don't take steps available to them and respond when they've been wronged.

2) eBay is negligent and condoning a serial extortionist (and it can't be his accounts are generating huge fees, over 70% of the listed items don't sell)
 

Rik_Everglade

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You left off several other and more likely conclusions. Your first is already false. Your second isn't really valid. We're not saying that Jonas/Gayle is a serial extortionist; They have behaved as extortionists, but it's not serial. Also, they do flip accounts to get around eBay policy that would suspend this type of behavior.
 

MonkeyGrass

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Rik is dead on.

imthebeat, stick around and listen a little bit. You might just learn something.

I have also been an ebayer with 100% perfect feedback since 1998 - until Gayle decided to start screwing with it. Over a set of mint, 1978 Ludwig Stainless Steel drums that were in meticulous condition, packed with confidence and INSURED. She claimed damages incurred in shipping, never sent a photo or proof (I did have the set insured for full value, I just needed a pic to start a claim). Then started demanding 20% off the price as "compensation for her bother and the $200 cost to repair the drum". I told her they are insured, send me a pic of the box and damage and I will have FedEx cut you a check. This went back and forth for several days, her demanding partial refunds, and me sticking to my guns of "show me the proof of damage you claim". I stuck to my guns, and was burned with negative feedback on the single largest sale I've conducted thru eBay. I went thru hell and back trying to get it cleared, ebay "couldn't determine the validity of the damage claim" and I'm the one left holding the bag. She has repeated this behavior NUMEROUS times with multiple members here and on other forums. Exact same MO - buy an item, extort the seller for fraudulent damage claims, and then damage their feedback if they don't give in to her racket.

You are very quick to jump to the defense of a known dirtbag who's name is MUD on this and several other forums. Ebay doesn't do jack dick to assist buyers anymore, and if you think they do, I've got some premium waterfront property for you. I suggest you give it rest. You aren't going to find much support for your position around here, trust me.
 

imthebeat

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MonkeyGrass said:
Rik is dead on.

imthebeat, stick around and listen a little bit. You might just learn something.

I have also been an ebayer with 100% perfect feedback since 1998 - until Gayle decided to start screwing with it. Over a set of mint, 1978 Ludwig Stainless Steel drums that were in meticulous condition, packed with confidence and INSURED. She claimed damages incurred in shipping, never sent a photo or proof (I did have the set insured for full value, I just needed a pic to start a claim). Then started demanding 20% off the price as "compensation for her bother and the $200 cost to repair the drum". I told her they are insured, send me a pic of the box and damage and I will have FedEx cut you a check. This went back and forth for several days, her demanding partial refunds, and me sticking to my guns of "show me the proof of damage you claim". I stuck to my guns, and was burned with negative feedback on the single largest sale I've conducted thru eBay. I went thru hell and back trying to get it cleared, ebay "couldn't determine the validity of the damage claim" and I'm the one left holding the bag. She has repeated this behavior NUMEROUS times with multiple members here and on other forums. Exact same MO - buy an item, extort the seller for fraudulent damage claims, and then damage their feedback if they don't give in to her racket.

You are very quick to jump to the defense of a known dirtbag who's name is MUD on this and several other forums. Ebay doesn't do jack d**k to assist buyers anymore, and if you think they do, I've got some premium waterfront property for you. I suggest you give it rest. You aren't going to find much support for your position around here, trust me.
MonkeyGrass,

You got it wrong, I'm not defending him, just trying to understand what makes no sense to me. How can this happen without repercussions?

Here is the relevant section of the eBay Seller Protection Policy:
In cases where a buyer has made unreasonable demands (including extorting a seller), left inappropriate feedback, is abusing eBay buying protection programs, or misusing eBay returns—and the seller reports it—the Seller Protection team will take stronger measures: we will set limits on what the buyer can do, temporarily suspend them from the site and, if their behavior is bad enough, remove them from eBay.

If you reported the incident above and others have done so too, and it's true that she has repeated this behavior numerous times with multiple members here and on other forums, and with possibly dozens or hundreds of other sellers, why hasn't eBay at the very least suspended them from the site, and considering pattern and history, removed them?

The answer is #2, eBay publishes rules and regulations they don't enforce and tolerates a serial extortionist at the expense of other members.

Thanks, I get it
 

homeby5

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mad_mike said:
@Homeby5 Since I never mentioned drum stripping until my last comment (where I clarified the issue WASN'T about stripping), I will assume you are lecturing someone else.
You are correct and I sincerely APOLOGIZE. I want to make this public instead of just sending you a PM. I mistakingly attributed comments about drum stripping, as the reason you canceled the sale, to you, when reading back through this thread, they were in fact made by others.
I also misinterpreted your "last comment" meaning. I thought were you indicating that since your problem with drum stripping was made as the last comment in your post that it shouldn't be considered valid. I now realize you were simply referring to your "last comment", as your last entire post. This is a big problem with reading sterile text without inflection but that's not an excuse for my misunderstanding. That's entirely on me.
Even though my premise that what one does with property after it is purchased does not give cause to cancel a binding contractual sale, my "lecture" was unwarrantly directed at you. Again, I was wrong and hope you accept my apology. I will note this and also send you a PM pointing to this apology.
 

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@homeby5... no apology necessary. this is the internet, thick skins are required! that said, i appreciate it, and also you reading back over the thread.
 

DanC

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imthebeat:

Your defense of the guy we're talking about seems to be this:

"Well, he's never really been caught, so he can't really be a crook."

Ridiculous.

As I said in a previous post, the assertions you're making are offensive to the people here who have dealt with this clown for many years.
 

homeby5

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@homeby5... no apology necessary. this is the internet, thick skins are required! that said, i appreciate it, and also you reading back over the thread.
Thank you
 

Gary

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This is something that irks me about p00der and their various eBay aliases. Clarity of shipping costs. Look at this ad excerpt:

Prices quoted for s&h above are for the lower Continental U.S.A. & Europe.

Canada will usually be cheaper and Australia will usually be more expensive.

We reserve the right to send you a 2nd invoice for any s&h shortage,
especially if we have made a listing error. For example, we list a snare drum and the s&h is shown as $8.95, but should be $24.95. We would then reserve the right to send you a bill for the difference.

Please note that ebaY allows vendors to charge s&h. This includes the actual shipping plus handling which covers rent/mortgage, fees and commissions, labor, packing materials and other boring overhead such as electricity and water. If you do not agree with this policy, please do not place a winning bid.


WTF!? How do you bid on that?
 

homeby5

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I don't have a problem with that as long as they can show a receipt for a shipping quote.
Why should the seller assume all the risk involving shipping costs, especially when Ebay tries very hard to regulate it? I sell all the time and most of the time I run wording that my shipping price is an estimate and that I will refund the seller if it's more and expect the seller to pay if it's low. I then take the time to go to the shippers store and get a printed quote and will show it to the buyer before I ship. I usually NEVER have to do this as most of the time I guess pretty accurate and will eat a little bit of money. Also, most buyers don't ask for a refund that's only a few dollars. But the option is there just in case. It's really a fair way to do it, again since EBay tries to restrict how much a seller can quote shipping.
An example is school books. I sell college books all the time. Unless I jump through hoops Ebay doesn't allow me to quote more than $4.00 a book because of media rates at the USPS. I have never been able to ship it for that low with tracking and insurance.
 

Gary

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homeby5 said:
I don't have a problem with that as long as they can show a receipt for a shipping quote.
Why should the seller assume all the risk involving shipping costs, especially when Ebay tries very hard to regulate it? I sell all the time and most of the time I run wording that my shipping price is an estimate and that I will refund the seller if it's more and expect the seller to pay if it's low. I then take the time to go to the shippers store and get a printed quote and will show it to the buyer before I ship. I usually NEVER have to do this as most of the time I guess pretty accurate and will eat a little bit of money. Also, most buyers don't ask for a refund that's only a few dollars. But the option is there just in case. It's really a fair way to do it, again since EBay tries to restrict how much a seller can quote shipping.
An example is school books. I sell college books all the time. Unless I jump through hoops Ebay doesn't allow me to quote more than $4.00 a book because of media rates at the USPS. I have never been able to ship it for that low with tracking and insurance.
How do you get receipts for "plus handling which covers rent/mortgage, fees and commissions, labor, packing materials and other boring overhead such as electricity and water?"

Whatever, maybe it's me. Maybe I'm stupid for not assigning fixed overhead allocation to each item I sell.
 

agogobil

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if you just place losing bids, you've nothing to worry about.
 

fiberflex11

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I have to weigh in here. ITB you are dead wrong. Continuing to deal wth a dishonest person NEVER makes sense (“fool me once”). We are talking about a buyer who is known and documented feedback extortionist who also was blocked by the seller in the first place, knew it, and proceeded under another alias. That alone is grounds for canceling on principle.
I have been on Ebay for a dozen or so years and Jonas Aaronson was the first person to REALLY rip me off under the pseudonym Amanda’s Texas Underground. He totally lied about condition, as he is now famous for, and sent me a Rogers ride tom that had clearly been in a flood (rusty, watermarked, faded, out of round etc...). It took fraud threats and months to get my money back and I was happy to see ATU go.
Recently I was totally ripped off again by “Gayle” at The Old Drum Shop- who bought a bass drum from me (we are both in FL so it traveled 80 miles) and claimed 6 t rods were somehow bent thru an undamaged box. Sound familiar? As soon as I got the email I said to myself “here we go” because I knew he was lying. Now that I know who “He” is I am not surprised at all. He put me thru hell trying to get a discount and I would not budge. He left negative feedback. I only just found out that this is Jonas and he has 4 or 5 aliases (p00der, p00der02, thedrumpartscounter, theolddrumshop, leecountymusic, and ahouseoftreasures) and is right back at it.
The person(s) defending pOOdr's right to rip people off on ebay as fundamentally American is essentially trying to defend a criminal guilty of fraud and extortion on a mass scale. I could care less about him sripping drums or buying and reselling them IF he were honest about it, but he lies like a rug and uses dishonest and duplicitous methods to buy and sell and has CLEARLY done this to hoards of people as the last 3 pages of this thread attest.
I will never understand how someone who rips so many people off keeps good feedback ratings but i guess it takes a dishonest person to think like one... I am sure he has an angle. I am just glad I have discovered it was him and that he still lurks so I can block him and delete him from my searches. My heart goes out to Mad Mike, I can relate and thank him for outing a crook who preys on all of us.
 

equipmentdork

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Amanda's Texas Underground! They tried to rip me off in the 90's. Sent wrong drums, out-of-round junk....had to do a charge back to get my money. I find it very hard to believe that someone, after all these years, has never put him out of business.



Dan
 

curotto

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equipmentdork said:
Amanda's Texas Underground! They tried to rip me off in the 90's. Sent wrong drums, out-of-round junk....had to do a charge back to get my money. I find it very hard to believe that someone, after all these years, has never put him out of business.



Dan
...or worse...

Mike Curotto
 

homeby5

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Gary said:
I don't have a problem with that as long as they can show a receipt for a shipping quote.
Why should the seller assume all the risk involving shipping costs, especially when Ebay tries very hard to regulate it? I sell all the time and most of the time I run wording that my shipping price is an estimate and that I will refund the seller if it's more and expect the seller to pay if it's low. I then take the time to go to the shippers store and get a printed quote and will show it to the buyer before I ship. I usually NEVER have to do this as most of the time I guess pretty accurate and will eat a little bit of money. Also, most buyers don't ask for a refund that's only a few dollars. But the option is there just in case. It's really a fair way to do it, again since EBay tries to restrict how much a seller can quote shipping.
An example is school books. I sell college books all the time. Unless I jump through hoops Ebay doesn't allow me to quote more than $4.00 a book because of media rates at the USPS. I have never been able to ship it for that low with tracking and insurance.
How do you get receipts for "plus handling which covers rent/mortgage, fees and commissions, labor, packing materials and other boring overhead such as electricity and water?"

Whatever, maybe it's me. Maybe I'm stupid for not assigning fixed overhead allocation to each item I sell.
Maybe I wasn't clear (my bad)....Of course you can't expect a receipt for overhead nor can you expect to backcharge a buyer for overhead. I was referring to the issue of charging more for shipping if it is declared up front that if the seller can provide a receipt for the service that THE BUYER REQUESTS then the buyer should pay the difference. That's why I posted the scenario....That has always worked for me without a single misunderstanding in several years....
 

troutstudio

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I understand the OP. Ebay is not a living for me. I fix drums up and sell them and certainly don't make money. But I have quite a few buyers blocked here in Oz because I just don't want stuff I've worked on going to them. I think the instruments suffer from passing through their hands. I've had ads running in classifieds and refused to sell to people there too. Now when I sell on eBay, since there is no reserve here, I list at a very high price until someone I like makes me an offer. I know this all sounds weird but it's how I feel about instruments. I add to mojo. These people remove it. I'd rather sell for less to someone I respect or like. Strangely, this has mostly worked out very well. Good people seem to find my stuff and I still get a fair price. $00.02.
 


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