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The strangest sounding Ziljdian Hollow Block "Mystery" ride cymbal ever.

owr

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I own this one Eric! It's super cool, but not as dry as that old A.

The Bettis doesnt feel especially floppy, but you can definitely feel something off in the tension. I love it, I pair it with this one:


Ultra dry with ultra trash.

I wish I bought more Bettis when I had the chance, bizzaro cymbals

Who knows if the left the factory like that?

Could be that its just played out. Done. Fin. Lost its tension after years of use.

Here's where the opinion of Craig, Matt, etc on cymbaholic would be helpful.

Not the driest cymbal I've ever heard, maybe close. I remember Bettis intentionally making super dry lathed cymbals.
 

hardbat

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Now that's something you don't hear every day.
I would go so far as to say it isn't even a cymbal anymore.
The woodblock kicks a** though.
 

mattr

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I’m guessing if it’s not a crack that’s in the grooves, theres definitely appears to be a satin varnish on it. We would make painted cymbals for endorsers at Z for special “pre recorded” events, and they would sound like that.
 

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hsosdrum

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Shhh... don't tell Zildjian about this or they'll turn it into a Concept Shop model.
 

NewVintage

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I have to think it was in a fire that got to the right temp to relieve the tension. Might have been cleaned some post-fire. Looks pretty loose in the video. Weird cymbal!!
 

bassanddrum84

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I would love to see if Bettis or any other cymbal smith could make this a good cymbal? Is it to far gone? I e only dabbled into lathing and hammering and this seems like it would be a challenge.
 

healthie1

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so this is what a cymbal sounds like after being in a fire? I'm a bit lost as to how it ended up like that. I've never heard of some of the expressions in this thread; that a cymbal can 'lose tension' and just be done??
 

Tama CW

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I've heard dozens of cracked old A's and have never run into one that became "dead" because of it. They always have some tone and resonance left. You would need
multiple cracks and chunks out of the cymbal to really deaden it. If you cut a HB ride cymbal in half leaving the bell intact, it would still have more tone that this one.
 

mattr

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so this is what a cymbal sounds like after being in a fire? I'm a bit lost as to how it ended up like that. I've never heard of some of the expressions in this thread; that a cymbal can 'lose tension' and just be done??

I didn’t read the original posting about this well, but ya… I’d take the fire hypothesis. Something about the patina looks wrong, but would make sense to it’s charred look. Fire would take all the cold worked tension out of it, but not obviously not one hot enough to fully distort it. Let me call up the boys in Concept Shop
 

Masecar

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That's the most broken sounding non-cracked cymbal I have ever heard in my life. Like, holy crap.

I have a stainless steel Keplinger cymbal that has more tone than this, and I bought it as a gratuitous noisemaker.
 

zenstat

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More listening fun.

These are two 50s UFIPs which I mentioned. They are 20" -- or actually 50 cm or 19.586" because they are metric. They look like this:

Cymbal 1 with rivet holes weighs 1675g

ufip7.jpg


Cymbal 2 with no rivet holes and very little sustain weights 1725g and has wafer thin edges

ufip6.jpg


they both have interesting 1950s UFIP style overhammering

ufip4.jpg


and very thick straight sided bells

ufip5.jpg


Both of these have a fairly flat profile which accounts for the low pitch. The one with rivets also has a bit of a Pang edge (Zildjian speak) or Sound Control (Sabian speak) edge which might also account for the reduced highs. At least reduced highs is what Sabian say the sound control edge does. Hard to see in this profile shot, but you get to see the low profile.

SoundControlEdge.jpg


I played the first recording for Cliff a few years back and he thought they were both suffering a bit from loss of tension. Played out.

The first recording is from 2012. I play the first cymbal for 11 sec and at about 12 I switch over to the second. The second one has a much shorter sustain and metallic stick, but a great growly edge crash due to that wafer thin edge.

http://black.net.nz/cym2012/twofips.mp3

The second recording is from 2015 after I reamed out the mounting hole on the second cymbal a bit. It now sounds a bit more open. I start on the first cymbal, crash the second at 15 sec and stay on that one until 27 sec when I switch back to the first. I stay on the first until 54 sec when I switch back to the second and stay on that.

http://black.net.nz/cym2015/ufips-hbnb.mp3

Another place to find ideas is this video Craig Lauritsen made starting from a Zildjian casting, and taking it through to a finished cymbal. You will find some familiar short sustain metallic sounds in the first two stages. And yes I know Zildjian has now decided to sell some of these.


and the finished cymbal

 

Tama CW

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Great post by Zenstat with some real world examples of how this one could have gotten here. That 2nd UFIP 20 that is not quite dead yet reminds me of an 18" trans stamp (1160 gm)
that I owned about 3 yrs ago. I noted at the time how dullish that one sounded to me....like striking a large piece of thin sheet steel. It had some sustain though. While I couldn't understand it at the time,
the next owner loved it. A not so great quality video linked below.

 
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Tama CW

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Large cracks don't always alter the sound a lot. And in some cases could "improve" things if dryer, darker, with less sustain are your thing.
Which is why I don't think the dead cymbal sound under discussion is from cracking.

This 23" 1950's small stamp (3117 gm - 5-5/8" bell) has a 5.5 inch crack at 1:00 that covers about a 1/2 inch width of tonal grooves.
You'd be hard pressed to hear anything "off" in this sound video. I have to play it close to the crack itself to register an obvious change.




IMG_5536.JPG
IMG_5538.JPG
 
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