ThomasL
Very well Known Member
It is possible that they are the only ones who know that there is no secret. How can we ever know?
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The Zildjian fabrication process
- Thread starter Frank Godiva
- Start date
It is possible that they are the only ones who know that there is no secret. How can we ever know?
It's the timing of the steps every one has their way .03 second there .04 second difference there similar differences
Timing Timing Timing cook chef
Temps and timing. Cook me some soup.
Timing Timing Timing cook chef
Temps and timing. Cook me some soup.
mattr
Well-Known Member
As Johnny mentions, it’s not the composition, it’s the process of making the ingots. And the culture and employees within Zildjian treat “the secret” very seriously… a “don’t ask” policy. When occasional quality issues arose that had their origins in what was going on in the Melt Room, even as the Quality Lead, I was told never to ask… “it will be taken care of” the Melt Room Lead will tell me. Been in the Melt Room many times when the “red light” wasn’t on and their shift was over… it’s a dark dungeon…
What caught my eye in that link was the old Azco clip… no hammering, and they had the same exact custom-made manual lathes with the pneumatic arm that’s still in use today in Norwell (the ape hanger thing Paul’s pushing down on). Those machines had repurposed outboard boat motor castings for the pneumatic arm! I knew they weren’t new, but I wouldn’t have guessed they were +50 years old, and still being used in production today…
Also the heavy varnish dip isn’t used anymore… that must of been dreadful to cymbal sound.
What caught my eye in that link was the old Azco clip… no hammering, and they had the same exact custom-made manual lathes with the pneumatic arm that’s still in use today in Norwell (the ape hanger thing Paul’s pushing down on). Those machines had repurposed outboard boat motor castings for the pneumatic arm! I knew they weren’t new, but I wouldn’t have guessed they were +50 years old, and still being used in production today…
Also the heavy varnish dip isn’t used anymore… that must of been dreadful to cymbal sound.
mattr
Well-Known Member
I would never say it is a “well kept” secret industry-wide, but within the Zildjian company it was well kept.
you mean the black & white CBC vintage clip I ran across and posted...
Yes Glad you watched it (unlike these other... : D
That's it!?
We all knew/know what the alloy is... that's not the Secret. The Secret is the melting and mixing of the metals whereby blending 20% tin with 80% copper doesn't create a cymbal that breaks on impact.
I guess then since myriad other companies exist that produce cymbals that don't break on impact... we can safely assume the secret's out, and has been ever since Zildjian has had competition?
underratedcowbell
Well-Known Member
When you take a factory tour in Turkey there's no such thing as a secret. You can peek whatever you want and whenever you want...that is also more true if you give a litlte extra cash to a worker on the side!
So...the secret is out - Zildjian uses ball bearings on their cymbals!!!
Gotta keep my eye out for black helicopters now...
JimmyM
Very well Known Member
Great thread! Never knew how cymbals were made, but it's a real serious process with a lot of hand work, even at the major manufacturers. Hope it doesn't turn me into a cymbal junkie.
Tarkus
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I made a 'factory tour' at the so-called 'Istanbul Cymbal Factory' in Istanbul, in the late 80s. In these days, it was not called 'factory' tour, it was called 'being customer' or 'being guest'.
They made a secret and a story about the secret of the ingredients of the cymbals: That and that percentage of copper, that and that on tin (don't remember these, but you can easily find out now), and a bit extra on gold. And maybe something else ...
It was a bit like a game and I was never sure, if they were serious about it, or not. The cymbals sounded fantastic, that was the most important point for me. And it was clear, they could work out any 'secret' just in front of your eyes, and you wouldn't get it, because you don't know where to look at.
Compared to the Zildjian video, it was even more handcrafted.
Long ago, it was a lot of fun and I still play the cymbals I got there.
