Thinnest 1950’s Zildjian Hollow Block Stamp 22” Ride

Stpdrummer

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Paging Zenstat... What’s the thinnest 1950’s Zildjian Hollow Block Stamp 22” Ride Cymbal you’ve seen? I’ve got one coming that’s supposed to be 2120g. Just curious on what others have seen?
 

zenstat

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The lightest Hollow Block is 2110g but it was Nodar style bolts repair job. If you include the other Large Stamps then the lightest is 1935g. There are 10 under 2300g out of a total of 124 Large Stamps. Weights go all the way up to 3420g, but half are under 2630g. I'm still working on a nice graphical way to show the whole weight distribution because I like pictures rather than words to convey this kind of information.

Here are examples with model and weight class ink intact

Medium Thin Sizzle 2391g
Medium Ride 2490g
Ping 2550g
Medium 2850g

There are no cymbals designated Crash from that era, that seemed to come in after the 1950s. There are Thin and Ex. Thin and Paper Thin models/weight classes.

It seems odd that a Medium model should weigh so much more than a Ping or a Medium Ride. That could be a bogus weight for the one with Medium ink. Or a bogus weight for the one with Ping ink. The next step is to look at weights for cymbals with model and weight class ink across other production eras, and in other diameters. That might help give context to what looks like a bogus weight, and we might see that it makes sense given the bigger picture. And I'll keep watch for another 22" Large Stamp with Ping ink intact. :glasses8:
 
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Stpdrummer

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Thanks for the replies. We’ll see when it arrives. The thinnest I’ve had was around 2400g and that seemed damn thin. A lot of the weight seems to be in the bell on these cymbals. Maybe the thinner ones are more even?
 

premierplayer

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I'm questioning the ping at 2550, maybe it's just where the weight is on the cymbal?
I'm sure 21** is good for some of you guys, I'm be needin' a little more meat on the bone :wink:
 

zenstat

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Looking forward to more info when you get hands on.

Here is some background reading (with pics) of another variable with these: different bells.


There are 6", 5.5", and 5" diameter bells on these. The bells also vary in height and steepness of sides. We believe that reflects different models and the Bop (aka Bebop) model had a 6" bell. The other visual clue about bell variation is that the Large Stamp era is known for having some cymbals (particularly 22") with a bell which looks fairly flat on top. But not all of them do, and again that probably reflects which model they were and which bell die was used.

Taper (thinning towards the edge) was patented by Zildjian in July, 1951 (US patent 2559143) and some of the ads and catalogs talk about "special taper" for getting that cool bebop sound. So yes, more weight in the bell area because of the degree of taper. Again that's like a model thing which exists beyond the level of cymbal to cymbal variation. But we're still collecting information to help fill out the picture.
 
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Stpdrummer

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From the pictures it looks like the typical flat top bell. LOTS of patina on it. I’ll measure the bell for sure as well.
 

zenstat

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I'm questioning the ping at 2550, maybe it's just where the weight is on the cymbal?
I'm sure 21** is good for some of you guys, I'm be needin' a little more meat on the bone :wink:
Another complication is that Ping didn't mean what it does today (heavy weight class to most people) when it first appears in the 1950s. The ads and catalogs suggest other sonic factors than just weight. It's been a long slow process trying to put it all together to move us from

Old A and a weight if the seller is kind to you

to models

Paper Thin
Ex. Thin
Thin
Medium
Medium Ride (are the ones with Ride ink different?)
Bop
Bounce
Flange Ride (yes they exist, like the Sabian Sound Control but decades earlier)
Ping

and how to tell them apart.
 
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Tama CW

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I don't see much gain in ride quality going below the "sweet spot" of 2400-2800 gm for a 22" A Zildjian. Though, there can always be flukey cymbals that are contoured and balanced just right that they perform wonderfully at 10-20% lower weights. I've yet to find one in either the 22 or 20 inch sizes (20" sweet spot seems to be 2000-2300 gm). Going below the ride/crash sweet spot gets you a "light weight" blue ribbon but usually at the expense of poorer ride quality and other interfering tones. My experiences only.
 

mlayton

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I've had probably 15 or more 22" Hollow Block Stamps 22". The thinnest one that I have come across/own is 2293 grams. I like these a little heavier. They are so versatile. 2120 grams is quite a find!
 

owr

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I had a 22” hollow block around 2200 g. Was quite nice, but a little too low pitched for my personal practical use. I love 22” old As but my sweet spot is 2400 - 2600 +/-
 

levelpebble

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And here's a post-clean-up beauty shot of that kit and the hollow blocks.....

The beautiful 22" hollow block precariously perched atop this 1959 Trans Badge kit weighs 2115 grams. This was the estate sale pic posted that made me run to the car a couple of summers ago....View attachment 403194
20170730_132057.jpg
 

Pounder

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It's weird how the shape of the cymbal can make a really lighter cymbal have nice stick definition while another cymbal of the same weight sounds like a crash cymbal no matter how you play it. The weight is one important component of the overall sound of a cymbal, though.
 

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