those crazy cats from A&F are at it again

multijd

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All the drums are ludwigs from 1920-30’s era. Bass is pioneer 12x26, bought from DFO member.

Single tensions are ok. I mix the heads if I want little different sounds. Bass is one of the best sounding drums I ever had. All drums are very light, and have a round, warm sound.
Playing Punk or Modern Pop with it would be questionable. That kit is intended for blues and country. And does it very well. Snare is 1950’s 7x14 student radio king
View attachment 421916
Hey I recognize that bass drum!!
 

clowndog

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A new metal snare drum ... cost ... $4075.00






Yamaha used gold for their lug plating ... the silver is not a reasonable justification.
So ... one would have to agree that there are indeed high dollar snares out there beyond the A&F brand.
Therefore, A&F is AMONG a group of builders that are putting out drums (individual and kits) that hold prices in the lower end AND in the upper end of the spectrum.
I don't see how that puts them in a single category of being crazy for their pricing structure.
Some kits are below Ludwigs ... some are the same as Ludwigs ... some are above Ludwigs ... most all are well below some of Yamaha's top tier offerings.

I don't comprehend the mental gymnastics displayed here ... but they are indeed fascinating.
Is is because there is potentially a quality difference in build construction and materials between AF and Joyful Noise?
 

Nacci

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A new metal snare drum ... cost ... $4075.00






Yamaha used gold for their lug plating ... the silver is not a reasonable justification.
So ... one would have to agree that there are indeed high dollar snares out there beyond the A&F brand.
Therefore, A&F is AMONG a group of builders that are putting out drums (individual and kits) that hold prices in the lower end AND in the upper end of the spectrum.
I don't see how that puts them in a single category of being crazy for their pricing structure.
Some kits are below Ludwigs ... some are the same as Ludwigs ... some are above Ludwigs ... most all are well below some of Yamaha's top tier offerings.

I don't comprehend the mental gymnastics displayed here ... but they are indeed fascinating.
Anyone who questions whether this snare drum is worth 4K; let them eat cake.
 

Browny

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Hard to compare a smaller operation like A&F/Joyful Noise/etc with any of the major players. Their cost structures would be practically incomparable. Setup cost differential between mass & batch production is substantial. The relatively young companies might still be paying off equipment/tooling purchased or relocating to a larger space, amortising these costs across their sales. Variations in processes, differing levels of trade-skill and/or automation involved in processes (& the wages associated to the staff performing them, plus there's geographic wage differences, both domestically and internationally), oem parts sourced through a supplier at low volume vs manufacturing your own in-house, even simple things like a basic workshop setup vs a dedicated lean/Kanban production line.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if A&F's margins were lower than Ludwig, Pearl, etc.
 

Mcjnic

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Is is because there is potentially a quality difference in build construction and materials between AF and Joyful Noise?
No.
The point continues to elude.

Let me state this a bit clearer for all.

Some members here and elsewhere have made a point of taking issue with the pricing structure of this company.

This builder has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.
Ludwig has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.
Yamaha has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.
Sonor has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.
Tama has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.
DW has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.
Gretsch has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.
Pearl has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.

ALL of these have had build quality issues over the years And all of them were dealt with ... as I imagine A&F will also do with the poorly welded snare.

To single out this company as if it’s some anomaly is ludicrous. To say this company charges outrageous prices for drums ... as if they only sell high priced drums ... when all of these companies have very similar pricing is also ludicrous. The facts speak loud.

This is a psychological reaction by a lot of members. It is not based in fact or logic ... as has been documented here and elsewhere.
While it is entertaining, it has the unfortunate variable attached that is the internet ... and that could impact a business.
In this case ... extremely unfairly.
 
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clowndog

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No.
The point continues to elude.

Let me state this a bit clearer.

This builder has drums priced lower, mid, and high.
Ludwig has drums priced lower, mid, and high.
Yamaha has drums priced lower, mid, and high.
Sonor has drums priced lower, mid, and high.
Tama has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.
DW has drums priced lower, mid, and higher.

ALL of these have had build quality issues over the years And all of them were dealt with ... as I imagine A&F will also do with the poorly welded snare.

To single out this company as if it’s some anomaly is ludicrous. To say this company charges outrageous prices for drums when all of these companies do the same is also ludicrous. The facts speak loud.

This is a psychological reaction by a lot of members. It is not based on fact or logic ... as has been documented here.
While it is entertaining, it has the unfortunate variable attached that is the internet ... and that could impact a business.
In this case ... extremely unfairly.
I don't argue $4k for the Joyful Noise is too much. However, Pure Silver Plating = $; 24k Gold Plating = $; Top of the line Corder Tube lugs = $; One touch cast bronze throwoff-then 24k gold plated = $; seamless shell = $; 2.5mm solid brass hoops = $; gold plated badge = $; premium embroidered drum bag = $; Hand Engraving the entire shell and hoops by the best person in the business = $$.

Several of these components carry over to the Joyful Noise 'regular' drums, which in my view are of superior quality and expense to the cheap claws that AF uses, the cheap beer tap throwoff that AF uses; the seamed shells with the elementary weld jobs AF offers; the lower cost/simple lugs on AF, lack of plating on hardware on AF (less cost), etc. (I don't own, nor plan to own a Joyful Noise snare btw)

A&F NOB snare drum costs just over $2k. Joyful Noise Standard NOB is about $600 less. One would think both of these producers would be about as closely linked as possible in terms of overhead and cost to produce drums. In fact, Joyful Noise is likely selling/producing fewer drums and may have higher cost of materials in relation to quantity buys.

There is enough logic here that doesn't make it simply a psychological decision imo.
 

Mcjnic

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I don't argue $4k for the Joyful Noise is too much. However, Pure Silver Plating = $; 24k Gold Plating = $; Top of the line Corder Tube lugs = $; One touch cast bronze throwoff-then 24k gold plated = $; seamless shell = $; 2.5mm solid brass hoops = $; gold plated badge = $; premium embroidered drum bag = $; Hand Engraving the entire shell and hoops by the best person in the business = $$.

Several of these components carry over to the Joyful Noise 'regular' drums, which in my view are of superior quality and expense to the cheap claws that AF uses, the cheap beer tap throwoff that AF uses; the seamed shells with the elementary weld jobs AF offers; the lower cost/simple lugs on AF, lack of plating on hardware on AF (less cost), etc. (I don't own, nor plan to own a Joyful Noise snare btw)

A&F NOB snare drum costs just over $2k. Joyful Noise Standard NOB is about $600 less. One would think both of these producers would be about as closely linked as possible in terms of overhead and cost to produce drums. In fact, Joyful Noise is likely selling/producing fewer drums and may have higher cost of materials in relation to quantity buys.

There is enough logic here that doesn't make it simply a psychological decision imo.
I disagree with your flow here.
You do not hold the specific ledgers to make those points. It is speculative.

The reason for listing that particular snare was to demonstrate that others offer high priced snares. It was not a side by side comparison.
You missed the point.

To remain in fact and logic ... check a side by side of similar kits by the companies listed.
 

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